S3 E25. Preparation, Inspiration, and Legacy, NILCA HOFer, Coach Steve Finnell, Part III.

This episode of 'Get the Lax Scoop' podcast features an in-depth interview with the Garden City High School lacrosse team's head coach Steve Finnell and his coordinators Joe Jacovina and Tim Holman. They discuss fundamental lacrosse skills, the importance of relationships and self-motivation, and tips for youth players and their parents. The episode also emphasizes developing both offensive and defensive skills, and adapting to roles within the team. Anecdotes about their experiences and past players highlight the impact of dedication and preparation on achieving championship success.

00:00 Introduction to Get the Lax Scoop

00:23 Meet the Hosts and Guest

00:59 Solo Podcast and Special Interview

01:58 Coaching Insights: Defense and Offense

05:12 Advice for Parents and Players

11:15 Mindset Minute: Mastering the Basics

12:55 Inside the Recruiting Game

13:58 Final Thoughts and Farewell

NEW BOOK!
Inside the Recruiting Game: Insights From College Lacrosse Coaches
-Available on Amazon.com as an Ebook and paperback

Donate to Harlem Lacrosse Summer Camp:

https://www.harlemlacrosse.org/gmvs2025

Links to training videos:
Master The 5 Best Dodges From the Wing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7LDOcQQ6Q&t=88s

Blazing Shots... on the Run!
https://youtu.be/XiptPlM63oQ

Check us out...

On YouTube @jaymcmahonlax23
On Instagram @jaymcmahonlax23
On Facebook @: facebook.com/jmcmahonlax23. Page name: Jay McMahon Lacrosse

Jules Heningburg: https://thelaxlab.com/

Check out!... Coach Tintle's Lacrosse Barn:

https://g.co/kgs/eXedCXf

SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts

Brian Cain Daily Dominator on Apple Podcasts

Lacrosse Charities Mentioned in S2 E36:
https://www.4thefuturefoundation.org/

https://www.harlemlacrosse.org/

https://15forlife.org/

Transcript

0:00

It's time for Get the Lack Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know in the game of lacrosse. We take lack seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join host Big Dog and Jaybird and the biggest names in the game brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training. Ron Doglish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the Sports Foundation. And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All American midfielder at Brown. He was the captain of the U. S. Junior National Team and is the founder of JML. And Joining us in the studio, Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training, helping the next generation of lacrosse players get to the next level Well, friends, I'm going solo for this podcast as both the big dog and our roving reporter, Steve gfi, are out of the country on secret special assignments. But I could not be happier to be here myself. As we continue our interview series with National Interscholastic Lacrosse Coaches Association Hall, the Famer, and sixth time New York State Champion at my alma Mater Garden City High School head coach Steve Fennell, along with his defensive coordinator, Joe Jovina and offensive coordinator, Tim Holman. If you have not listened to the prior portion of this interview, we highly recommend you do so as it was simply put, epic. Also, if you like what you are hearing, please show your support for the podcast. By subscribing, leaving a review and sharing our content with a friend, it would really mean so much to all of us here at Get The Lack Scoop Now. We will join our interview and you will find that interview in progress. Like, most of the people listening to this podcast are on the summer circuit, like the Crofton, you know, what are things you want these middle school kids working on so that when they get to the high school, they've got these skills in place? So for, you know, for you to actually, the defenseman, we, we, we've talked about this, it's, it's all about the fundamental stuff. It's about. Getting your stick out in front, getting poke checks, getting lifts being able to communicate incredibly important. And I think that especially with younger players, it's hard sometimes to get them to communicate, to get them to be confident enough to know what they're doing in order to communicate. But to, to me it's about footwork. It's about throwing some poke checks, throwing some lifts, getting good positioning, communicating, and then actually with our defensemen too, get getting their sticks ready to, to run up and down the field. One of the things we've talked about forever in Garden City lacrosse is you're gonna get yelled at more for running off the field than running the field. As a defenseman, we want you to go down and make good decisions, right? Go score goals if you can go pass the ball to the guy you're supposed to. But the, the fundamental things are the things that we preach from the day we get'em till the day they leave us. Right. That's great. And how about you, Tim, on the offensive end, what are some skills you like to have the kids, you know, come ready to utilize as soon as they get on the field as high school players? Yeah, it's it's a good question. You know, obviously the, the game is very tough to play if you are, stick skills are not where they need to be. You know, some of our, our better guys that have come through are are, you know, catching one handed passes and, and you know, throwing lever passes, shovel passes, and you're, you, you watch it happen in practice and you're like, wow, that I, I know that wasn't going on when I was playing. So right. The, the stick skills these days are just absolutely ridiculous. And that's, you know, that's a credit to the time and the effort that the kids put in on their own and with their friends. And then, I guess really you know, something that's kind of the second level is, is understanding the game. Maybe some of like the finer details on like shot placement or ways to react to certain dodges or, you know, being able to, to work with a guy on the offensive end use picks and all that stuff. We, we've we've, we've driven that home pretty, pretty hard over the last few years and it, it really comes with reps and, you know, just just working with your friends and kind talking through some things that are, you know, again, like I said before, just the, the next level of the game that you know, not, not many people may necessarily see or, or may not show up on a stat sheet, but you know, just little plays that can turn into really big plays on the offensive end. Right. That's good stuff. Yeah, it was, I think that tradition started way back when I was in middle school and high school in the eighties of just groups of friends playing lacrosse together. You know, it's become a big thing in Garden City, you know, watching the Peter Bennetts and the, the older guys Rub Griffith. They were kind of two years ahead of us and they got to the state finals when I was in 10th grade. And and it, it's good to hear that. It seems like that's just continued on and on.'cause Coach Fennell was saying that's how he first started playing too, while his friends were playing. So you really get those fundamentals. And then one thing I would say I would want to ask is, coach Fennell is what would you recommend for parents? You know, here we are in this summer season and they're going through all the travel stuff, and you know, how involved should they be? How not involved should they be? What what could. You know, can be their role so that they can kind of be the most supportive parent they can be. And then of course, what are some of the, the don'ts, so some of the dos and some of the don'ts for parents. Yeah. I, I, I, I think if your child wants to get out there and practice, that's awesome. You know, if you gotta kick them out the door to practice every day and kind of, you know, start their, start their engine, start their motor, you know, that's, that's, that's probably a sign. They might not be truly into it, you know? And we, as Joe said you know, we've had some incredible defensemen this year. Blake Skadden played LSM. He had not done that before. He tremendously, he worked a tremendous amount on his stick skills and just a he score scored some goals. He must have been working on a shot too. He did, he thought he was gonna be a two-way mini. So then we handed him the poll. So he, that was a pretty quick reality check for him. Yeah, it was. He did super. And Brendan Staub who had some big goals in the Cornell playoff run, I think off the top of my head, had 10 and 10 his senior year off the top of my head. Yeah. You know, that we, we encourage those guys to have the same skills as, as the attackers. You know, having played baseball up until ninth grade, I teach it the same way. For someone that's gonna throw a football, that's gonna throw a baseball, you turn to the side. You know, coach wires tape on the stick. We still talk about that. Some kids still do that. The one glove down from the top from the plastic, one glove link up from, from the bottom. And then where your elbow would meet the bottom is another piece of tape. So he was always big on that, on the fundamentals. Co coach Dwier, I, I, I think I just had a flashback to maybe my junior year. I scored a goal and I'm getting high fives and come off the field and Coach Dwyer says, I don't wanna rain on your parade, but you did three things wrong. And I have to tell you that. And I remember being like, I just scored. What is this guy? Why is he, why is he such a jerk? And and, and I still do the same thing that he did. Yeah. You know, it's not gonna work. Tim and I talk to guys about that. Joe will talk to the D guys. You got lucky on that check. That's not gonna work against the top level guys. So we, we, we try to preach the fundamentals you know. Ad nauseum to make sure that they're kind of driven home and, and our guys are, are locked in. But honestly, it, the, the kid's gotta start their own motor as far as stick skills are concerned. You know is it a d guy working on his footwork? Is it a no guy working on being two handed? I know there's a lot of discussion and push for, you know, box lacrosse and things like that. I've taught all my players and all my, all my children to be two-handed, and we think it just opens up so much more on the field. It's so much harder to defend, right? As a defender and as a team defense. So I, I get that. Idea. And I know there's some super duper one-handed players, and but we, we don't, we don't really preach that. We, we kinda tell everyone what hand the stick should be in, in that situation possibly. Right. And then for the parents themselves, like you said, you know, look to see that your son or daughter is a self-starter, that, you know, you're not the one who, who's pushing them into this type of thing. And then as far as interacting with coaches and with players, what would you recommend? You know, for parents? Oh, boy, that's a loaded question, Joel, as a coach. Yeah. You know, I, I think it's important for those, for the kids, and we say this all the time, you know, our door is always open for the kids to come and talk and, you know, we, we'll give you pointers, we'll tell you where you stand, and things like that. I think it's important for kids to advocate for themselves, you know you know, a as a, as a parent, you can't always think somebody's, you know, not letting your, your, your child thrive and things like that. You really gotta be critical of, of, of what you are doing as the player and the parent to support them at, at your support, your child as best you can. So it, that's a tough one. You know, of course you can ask for pointers and things like that, but those conversations usually start out, Jay, with, I, I don't typically do this and Right, right. So that's usually a big hint. The kids. And honestly, we've had some kids that have come through that haven't been able to get on the field. There's juniors, let's say, and then they crush it as a senior. They find their niche. Boys soccer team won the State's first time ever in Garden City history. We had a few soccer guys on the team this spring, Charlie Coaster to be one of them. I don't think no one has ever won two rings in the same year at Garden City. Right. Lacrosse guys were able to do that. You know, you gotta be self-motivated, you know, I, I really think that club lacrosse and, and the amount of time that everyone's putting into this, across the country you, you, you can't kind of wing it. You're not gonna be able to fake it, is my opinion. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. I remember Coach Staria saying his son was playing at Lynchburg and you know, he said, you know, for the life of me, I don't really see a difference between my son who was on the sideline not getting any playing time compared to the three starters out there. He's like, but I gotta trust that this coach who's seen him in practice, you know, week in and week out is making the right decision. And he just, you know, he, I think it was a, a letter he'd written in USA Lacrosse magazine just saying like, you know, you gotta trust your coach, that they're, they're with the kids the most and and they know who should be on the field and who shouldn't. How about if we, how about if we transition to. J m l and let's do that. We'll get into a little bit of the mindset. We'll do a mindset minute here. As Coach Fennell just said, if you want to be great at this game, you can't wing it. There's no shortcut. But first you have to master the basics. Catching, throwing, and shooting with both hands. That's the foundation. It doesn't matter if you're an attack man, midfielder, defenseman, or goalie. If you can't move the ball cleanly and confidently, you limit yourself. But if you put in the work and get those fundamentals dialed in. You give yourself a real shot to stand out and better yet, really enjoy playing the game. The best part, all you need is a stick, a ball, and a wall, and a couple of friends who want to get better too. Set some goals, push each other, compete, have fun. That's how you build confidence, skill, and chemistry. And it's not just about what you do on the field, it's also about how you study the game. Watch lacrosse, whether it's college or pro games on tv, or highlights in film, on YouTube. Soak it all in. See how the best players move, how they approach their matchup when they push, when they pull back. Imagine yourself in the same situation and think about how you would handle it. Then the next time you go out to play, try something new that you just saw on TV or on your phone and have fun with it. That's how you grow your lacrosse IQ and your skills at the same time. So get out there, build your skillset, sharpen your mind, and remember. Champions are made outside of practice, not just during it. If you remember that, you'll be right on track, right on the rails, so to speak, and keep you away from a place where there are no guardrails. Speaking of no guardrails that so many of our listeners describe the college lacrosse recruiting trail. So we've responded by putting excerpts of our 10 best interviews with legendary coaches, such as bill Tierney, Lars, Tiffany and Andy towers. Into a book that you can access on Kindle, it is available on Amazon, under the title inside the recruiting game insights from college lacrosse coaches. You will find a link to the book in our show notes. Now we will return to our interview and you will find that interview in progress. So I agree. Coach Dorsey is one of coach Presler favorites. Oh yeah. They were very tight. And so after I graduated duke and then coached with Coach Presler I would hear Dom and him have these conversations in the office all the time. So, is that right? Coach Stary was is the best, one of the best. He's a good, good pal, Presler, sorry I to plug in here. Oh, gotcha. Gotcha. All right guys. Well, good, good stuff. Well, well, thanks so much. This has been a, a terrific podcast and anything you guys want to add about Garden City Lacrosse? I. The, the one thing I would, just to add to what, what Steve was saying, again, like with the parents, like, it, it's about relationships. You know, our relationships with the kids and their, their relationships with us and, and with their teammates. So, you know, when the kid's not playing as a junior, he comes, talks to us and we have that conversation and he knows where we stand. We know where he stands. And, and, and, and, and our goal is to always make them better as individuals and as, as, as team players, you know? Right. Getting back to that idea of the comradery and, and, and what we are as a staff and what we are as a program, I, I, I think we can really boil it down to relationships, right? Whether it's between Steve, Timmy and I, or it's between us and our players. That's the most important thing. And I, I hope that shows when we play on the field you know, the, how we feel about each other, players, coaches, et cetera. Right. And he developed that trust with the player. Yeah. So he feels comfortable talking to you and he knows where he stands and knows what he needs to do if he wants to get on the field, I'd imagine. Yep. Good deal. Tim, you have anything to add on that? Yeah I honestly, I, I think one of my favorite things is is seeing a guy who kind of struggled maybe, you know. So freshman, sophomore, junior year, and then all of a sudden their senior year, they just kinda figure it out and, and they've they've finally heard our, our voices maybe for you know, for, for how, however long we've been telling'em, and it, and it clicks for'em. And, you know, it's, that, that's, that's super fulfilling for, I, I know myself and for us as a staff, we we had a guy come by one of our practices, Liam Curtin, and he, he literally spoke to the team. We, we were all in a huddle and he just said, guys, just find your role and, and be able to embrace that role and commit to it. And his senior year 2018, right coach? Yep. He, he was like one of our leading goal scorers throughout the majority of the year. And it was, it, it, it really provides juice and energy when, when, you know, the, the rest of the team sees a guy. Who, who may have struggled a bit, but you know, kind of, kind of come to, to one of our leaders you know, at, at the end of his senior year. It, it was pretty cool. So That's great. That's, that's what we like to see. That's awesome. And I would ask coach Fennell, what would you say, you know, over all these teams you've coached, you've had some teams that have been very close to winning championships, some that have won championships. Is there anything you can point to that creates that championship team? Or is it sometimes it just comes down to a, you know, a fraction of an inch on a shot that hits a post, or it hits a post and goes in? Like, or do you think there's a material difference in those teams that actually do win a championship? No, I mean, I, I, I think you know, our, our 2010 and 2011 teams getting us to the state championship game back to back years, you know, Steve Alka, Brian Fisher Tommy Gordon, you know, JP Burnside, guys like that, Brian Coleman that was some crew in 2011, we lost in overtime to Jamesville Dewitt you know tho those guys did everything you asked for the of them, we, we, the ball, the ball bounced one more way for the other team. You know, like there's, you know, like there's I, I, I think the football connection has been important for us because of Coach Flatley's foundation of, you know. Good preparation, hard-nosed kids, tough kids. Not always the biggest in football, but mm-hmm. That kind of relentless attitude has helped us a lot to be successful. I mean, we've, we've had some groups that haven't been able to, to, to win the last game, but I, I, I don't know, sometimes it comes together and it's, it's them clicking together. We talked about this, that 2018 team that Tim just mentioned they didn't click necessarily at the beginning of the year, mm-hmm. Between a couple of the classes. And by the end of the year that ship was on autopilot. And they. They figured it out. So I think that those are the, like Tim said, it's, those are kind of the fulfilling things. And Joe mentioned the trust part. You're, you're trusting these guys to, to, to, to steer the ship in the right direction. Our seniors this year were outstanding and some of the lead guys on this team offensively were younger and our senior leaders, you know, tipped the cap to them and played whatever role they needed to play. Mm-hmm. That doesn't always happen at every program. When someone says it, it's supposed to be my turn. Right. And to see our chemistry kind of develop, you know, defensively and offensively, you know, there's always egos on the offensive end that that's always delicate. Tim did a super job, but you could just see guys making the little plays that no one else is gonna know. The, the cut through the pick the one more pass, instead of saying, you know, it's gotta be my turn, you know? Right. I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw it to that younger guy because he's pretty darn good too. Right. Yeah. I could see that the selflessness kind of doing what's best for the team on a consistent basis. That's gotta be huge for winning. No doubt. It's hard. It's, I think it's hard for groups at times and we see it sometimes when you're watching other groups, you're like, I don't know, maybe they can't get out of their own way and, you know, people that were playing and you cross your fingers that maybe they can't. Right. You know? Right. Good deal. Excellent. Well guys, thanks so much. This was a terrific interview and I really appreciate you all coming on and congratulations on an amazing season and and all the years you guys have been doing so well together. It's been great to watch. I'm all the way down here in Richmond, Virginia, and try to get up a couple times a year and I see a lot of stuff online. I like the Instagram page. You guys have a lot of cool highlights on there. Yeah, some good stuff. We, we have a senior Luke Griffin who goes to Shamina. He's a triplet and his two brothers are at Garden City. Ben was on the team. Ben does the graphics and Luke is like absurd. These guys can attest to that. He's got the videos. Wow. It's off the charts. Super stuff. I thought. Yeah. We don't, we don't put any of that together. Right. We just Right. I hired a Hollywood producer or something for all that. Yeah. Feels that way sometimes. He does a great job. Yeah. That's amazing. I had people asking me if that was Coach Fennell and I, they could not be any further from, from him. He doesn't know how to turn on a computer, so. Exactly. Not his forte, huh? I'm struggling with technology. A took him a little time to get the zoom going. I gotta tell you guys, that's not surprising at all. Yeah. A quick question for Not surprising at all. Well, it took a few minutes, Jay, I have a quick question for you. Any any, any good doc stories that you can share or would you rather keep that, keep that to like a private phone call? You know? Right. He's, he's got some tough ones. I could always edit it out. You know, he, he had so many classic lines, you know, like he would just say stuff, you know, remember one time. It was like really windy. And he is trying to give directions to this defenseman, and he is not listening. He is not, he's not hearing him. And finally he's like, Dennis, Dennis. And finally everyone's listening. He goes, just take your head out of your ass. Thanks. So my dad, my dad played for him, graduated 75 and Oh my gosh, growing up. Yeah. I remember remember saying your dad's name was on the wall. It must've been in the Hall of Fame or something to, I remember saying that name Holman to Holman Tom in 75. And he would, he would, you know, he coached me all throughout growing up. And he'd say some things and I'd look at him and I'd just be like, he was like, that's a dock line. I'd be like, oh, okay. You're not supposed to say that to kids, so. Right, right. It's like when you see that big guy coming at you, don't back down. I don't care if you got nicotine stains coming outta your underway. Just like, okay. Between, between him and Dougie, the the lines were completely legendary. Oh my God. Yeah, slime would've some classics too. Oh, like, Hey, hey. Why'd you comb your hair with a rock this morning? I remember that dug wire. Alright, so these, so, so, so this will be edited, right? Exactly. Exactly. Okay, great. We don't need to put this on there. Yeah. So I think my senior year, we do the for whatever reason, they decided to take us to the track. So we gotta bring sneakers. We're gonna do four, you know, four forties. And we did a lot of that. Yeah. We, it was one day we did it one day. That was it. That was the only time we ever did it. We did it multiple days. And and then Sean Miller's coming in, like, you know, middle of the pack and, and Dougie goes, Hey M, you gotta get your ass up front. You're gonna be an All American this year. Sean is like gonna vomit. Okay, he's dying. And he goes, I should have been one last year. Coach Dougie, a typical slime. You got another one, Miller, what the fuck? Right, right. Unbelievable. It's not stopping there. No. So every now and then we wouldn't run and practice. It was rare, but every now and then, like he just would let us walk off and we were like slinking off one time and thinking like, Ooh, we got away with it. I'll never forget this. He's just like, where do you think you're going? And we just turned around and he goes like this to the track. Oh, I could see his face right now to the track. Oh my god. It was brutal. Now you do know the lines that he's told Andy. Some of the lines to, to Andy are are insane. No what to Crofton. He, he's kept, Crofton has kept those close to the vest. Oh, well Jay, here you go. Crofton, you got moves that could fake out parked cars. That was one of them. And then distinctly the other one was Crofton. You're slower than shit. And I thought it was over coming out of a dead cow's ass. And I'm going, who says this? Where does this come from? That's a classic I've never heard before since Right, right, exactly. Never heard it before since. No, a lot of classics. Thank you so much. This is, this is awesome. Really cool. Hey, glad to do it. Congrats you guys again on another championship. That's awesome. Beautiful. Thank you Jay. Thanks for having us. Thank You're very welcome. If you need anything else, let us know or anything like that. But thank you for really, this is awesome. I've listened to some of the other podcasts and it's pretty, pretty cool. Really good stuff. I appreciate you. Great. Giving back to the game. Hey, great. Glad you're liking it. Sounds good. Thanks Jack. Alright guys. Thanks Jay. Awesome. Take care. Take care. Have a great rest of the summer. Thanks. You too. You too. Thanks. Bye. Until we meet again. Here's to hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the get the lax scoop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.