S3 E24. Preparation, Inspiration, and Legacy, NILCA HOFer, Coach Steve Finnell, Part II.

In this episode of 'Get the Lax Scoop,' host Jaybird (Jay McMahon) goes solo to continue an interview with Garden City High School lacrosse coaches, including Hall of Fame head coach Steve Finnell and assistants Joe Jovina and Tim Holman. The discussion covers the coaches' backgrounds, their seamless transition into new roles, the intense rivalry with Manhasset in the Woodstick Classic, and their focus on building lacrosse IQ and versatility in their players. The episode also underscores the importance of team culture, strong comradery among coaching staff, and the new challenges posed by the shot clock in high school lacrosse.

00:00 Introduction to Get the Lax Scoop

00:23 Meet the Hosts and Special Guest

00:59 Solo Podcast with Jaybird (Jay McMahon)

01:12 Interview with Garden City High School Coaches

01:59 Introducing Assistant Coach Tim Holman

02:42 Transition to Coach Finnell's Era

03:23 Coaching Styles and Team Dynamics

05:44 Defensive Strategies and Star Players

07:31 Offensive Adjustments with the Shot Clock

13:18 Mindset and Versatility in Lacrosse

15:12 Sponsor Message and Recruiting Insights

16:12 Garden City Lacrosse Tradition

18:42 Team Camaraderie and Coaching Success

23:08 Skills Training for Young Players

24:00 Closing Remarks

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Links to training videos:
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Blazing Shots... on the Run!
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SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts

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Lacrosse Charities Mentioned in S2 E36:
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https://15forlife.org/

Transcript

0:00

It's time for Get the Lack Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know in the game of lacrosse. We take lack seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join host Big Dog and Jaybird and the biggest names in the game brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training. Ron Doglish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the Sports Foundation. And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All American midfielder at Brown. He was the captain of the U. S. Junior National Team and is the founder of JML. And Joining us in the studio, Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training, helping the next generation of lacrosse players get to the next level Well, friends, I'm going solo for this podcast as both the big dog and our roving reporter, Steve gfi, are out of the country on secret special assignments. But I could not be happier to be here myself. As we continue our interview series with National Interscholastic Lacrosse Coaches Association Hall, the Famer, and sixth time New York State Champion at my alma Mater Garden City High School head coach Steve Fennell, along with his defensive coordinator, Joe Jovina and offensive coordinator, Tim Holman. If you have not listened to the prior portion of this interview, we highly recommend you do so as it was simply put, epic. Also, if you like what you are hearing, please show your support for the podcast. By subscribing, leaving a review and sharing our content with a friend, it would really mean so much to all of us here at Get The Lack Scoop Now. We will join our interview and you will find that interview in progress. Next I'd like to introduce another assistant coach at Garden City High School, Tim Holman. Tim has been on the staff at Garden City with Coach Fennell since 2016 and he's a 2007 Garden City High School graduate. And a 2011 graduate of Hofstra University where he played shorts stick team mid and was the team captain for the pride his senior year in 2011. Welcome to the show Tim. Thank you for having me. And I saw a great career highlight there for Tim in a playoff game against Maryland, who was I think number three at the time. 2010. He gets two goals and two assists and almost knocked off the TURPs back then. Some good stuff, like to see that bow was thrown right to me. I got lucky. Now you played for coach Dougherty in high school, Tim, and then before your senior year doc retires. And then Coach Fennell takes over. He had been an assistant there for a few years, so he, you know, coach Fennell comes in, takes over the reigns as a first time head coach. So what was that transition like back then? You know, really. With Steve having already been on staff, like you had mentioned before, it, it, it really was seamless. You know, my brother graduated in 2005, so he he had the, the pleasure of playing for Steve as well, so he was kind of able to, to help me kind of navigate through some of the the finer details that Coach was looking for, if you will. But right, right. No, you know, I'm, I'm sure you guys had mentioned Doc had you know, kind of that hardnosed tough love coaching style, which you know, racking up 500 wins throughout his career. That, that is, he, he, he had his own way, but it, it worked for him. And then you know, Steve Steve is, is pretty similar, but I, I would say that Steve's ability to kind of just change with the game as, as it's kind of come along is is, is very impressive. So similar but you know, the, the coaching styles are similar, but I would say it was kind of a seamless transition to to, to the next era. So. Gotcha. Was Coach Fennell as fiery as, as Coach Dougherty, like would he, would he chew tobacco like Doc and just take it and throw it sometimes? Well, no, I, I don't, I, I have not seen that. Their again, the, the Hardnosed tough love style was was really doc's thing. Steve has that side to him as well. But he also knows when to kind of pull back and and, and kind of put his arm around you, which which, which speaks volumes to who he is. So he does a good job. Good. Good stuff. Good stuff. He's not, he's not throwing me under the bus Jay. Right. Trying to get a little something going there. Yeah. He's trying to stir the pot a little. He's he's a, he was a super player, a super duper player. And you know, it's to, to me it's been really, really cool. And I've said this to the guys, you know, and I know you asked, this might be a little jump in the gun. I know we talked a little bit about this, but the fact that we really get along together is really important. And I truly, you know, love working with these guys is a, is a pretty amazing part of it. And to have Timmy with me, you know, in early part of my coaching career and first time as a head coach and then now is is is is pretty cool. That's great. Yeah. And I know, you know, coach Fennell here and I contacted him about the interview. He really insisted he wanted you guys on here.'cause it feels like he gets a lot of this credit, but that you guys deserve. Just as much, if not more credit than he's getting. So he really wanted you guys on here because of that. So good stuff. We, we, we, we, we appreciate him and we appreciate that. Thank you. That's great. And I was just talking to Andy Crofton this afternoon, actually, and he is like, oh yeah, I mean the, it's like a college level coaching staff. He's like, it, it's amazing all the stuff they're doing. So it's great. Great to hear. And so Coach Jaa, I've noticed over the past few years, I mean it's probably every year, but just noticing it lately, the high level of talent, you know, on defense and defense. But let's talk about the defense guys, like Colin Hart who played where I went to college at Brown, I've watched him over the years. Brendan Staub now winning a national title with Cornell, and then a player like Cole Webers at UVA. So you get some of these superstars. Does that. Change things at all defensively. Do you try to like, highlight certain defenses so that they can shine? Or how does that change things when you get somebody who's that good of a, of a defender and also that good of an athlete? Well, I mean, it certainly makes my life a lot easier you know, having guys like that.'cause the most important thing is the players. Not necessarily the scheme or the coaching. The players are the most important thing. But I, I think ultimately, kind of coming back to the, the question we talked about before in terms of fundamentals, you know, our scheme is our scheme, and that's really where we kind of lay our foundation. But guys like Brendan, guys like, you know, Cole, guys, like, you know, a couple of the guys we've had this year. I, I, I really think we allow them, what I would say freelance within our scheme. You know? Mm-hmm. There are certain things that we, that we let the better guys do. Right, right. You can, you can throw these checks, other guys can't And that's okay.'cause'cause that's your, we, we, we need to figure out ways to let the great players be great. You know, my, my job is to let those guys shine, not hold them back because of what my thought process and my scheme is. So, right. You know, I think we kinda look at it that way is, is try to, try to freelance within the scheme and, you know, and, and, and, and let them be great. And let them do what they can do and, and, and, and shine on the field. Right. I gotcha. Good deal. And Coach Holman, you know, I could certainly say the same for the offenses Garden City has had over the years that you have been there and you know, great players like Coach Fennell's son Stevie, who's at Duke, and then a lot of the great players you had this season, like Charlie Koster. But let's talk a little bit about the shot clock.'cause that was a new thing. Now was that the whole season for public school? You guys had the shot clock. Yes. Gotcha. So was that a big adjustment for you running the offense there, Tim? There, there were certainly some growing pains. You know, I, I think just getting used to having to always have the idea in the back of your head that there, there is a timed a, a, a limit to how long you can have to get a, a look on the cage or, or if you can't dump the ball into the corner and kind of just adjust in into the next phase of the game, which would be the ride. But our guys handled it really well and I, I, I think that they enjoyed it. I think they really liked kind of just having to get to the next play quicker and realizing that this, if, if they so choose to, you know, continue their playing career in college, that this is, this is how it's gonna be. And a lot of those guys, I liked it a lot. Mm-hmm. Like I said, there, there were some growing pains, shooters, like to shoot. Right. Give, give an excuse. We, we, we had a couple guys who, who certainly fell into that into that mold this year. But no, like, you know, like you said I think with any new rule there, there's growing pains with it, but our guys handled it really well and you know, by the end of the year we, we were. We were really, really clicking and, and that showed, you know, on the scoreboard, we did a great job, so. Right. And did you I I loved, I loved it as a defensive coach. The shot clock is awesome. Yeah. They only get 60 seconds. It's over after that. I absolutely loved it. Right, right. You wanna keep it,'cause it, I guess it's kind of a two year period right? That they're gonna review and see if they want to continue it, something like that. I, I mean, I, I think they're gonna continue it, but they're talking about could they adjust it, and I don't know if you're a hundred percent familiar with what New York did, 20 to get it over 10 to get it in the box, and then 60 when you hit the box 60 on offense. Right. So it really wasn't the college rule just yet. I we're, we're hoping that they might adjust that and eliminate the touch of the box, you know, like get it in and, you know, like that, that's just been. Little, little awkward there. Look at times after you sub you got 43 seconds to play offense. It's not really, you know, so the college game, if you clear it in 10 seconds, you got 70 seconds to go, you know? Right. So, right. Not sure what they'll do, but it, I know people claim that we play very slow. I think we've always played to whatever the rules were and you know, we, we faced off very well this year with Luke Skadden, who was sensational. Yeah. And and were able to get multiple possessions on, on offense. So I thought Tim did a super job managing that. That's great. And then did you guys run different offensive sets from, compared to, say, last year or whatever? Or would you just run the same offense and just say, all right, you know, we gotta keep an eye on this clock, we gotta get a, get a shot going a little more quickly than we used to. I would, I would say it was majority of the same sets with maybe a few new wrinkles. But really just like Coach said, you know, when by the time you've done subbing, it's, it's 43 to 40 seconds to play offense. You're, you're not really getting the ball around much. It's kind of just like, okay, we, we gotta go. Right. So no, I, I, I would say scheme wise, we were we were pretty similar, but with maybe just a few, you know, new little wrinkles, but Gotcha. And you know, it's interesting, like with the college game, it's definitely the first few years there was a lot more scoring and then this year there and there really wasn't, it was kind of a low scoring year in college lacrosse, at least at D one. Did you guys see a big difference in goal scored? I mean, I looked at a lot of your guys' scores. You guys were scoring a ton. So, but in general, did you see a big difference between your scoring and then, let's just say in general, when you're looking at scores across Long Island across the country, did you see a change because of the shot clock? I, I, I don't know if it, we, we had said, I don't know if it was gonna make for better offensive lacrosse because. Do you, what is the goal? Is it two-way mids? Is that what everyone wants? Well, you know, you look at the college game, a lot of the offensive mids are high school attack them, you know, and they're still running off the field to, to sub. But, you know, we were, we were wondering about that. We played pretty efficiently and some of our d mids could, could handle. Owen wta, you know, Blake Skadden was sensational with the pole and Merri rock. So we had some good guys, Michael Bey in the middle of the field, so we were able to do that. But these are things that we talked about and address with the kids in the off season a little bit and try to try to tell them there might be some growing pains with it. But I, I, I think there was more goals scored, but it's also in the middle of the field. I think kids were more tired'cause there was a lot going, a lot more going back and forth. Yeah. It was a lot more possessions that was, I don't know if there were as many more goals. There might have been a few more. There were a lot more possessions as, as we, we stat out and chart out a lot of our games and yeah, there would be maybe a third more possessions in a lot of the games, which that, that was the part that surprised me a little bit. Just, you know, you got these games that last year were 40 or 50 possessions, we're now at 70 or 80 possessions. Wow. That was the big difference. Yeah. So the ball's, you're going back and forth a lot more that, which is harder for those midfielders too. Right, right. Good deal. All right. How about if we, how about if we transition to. J m l and let's do that. We'll get into a little bit of the mindset. We'll do a mindset minute here. A love with the coaches have just said here in today's game, versatility isn't a luxury. It's a necessity. That's true Now at the high school level, and as they said, even more so in the college game, the days of being just an offensive player or just a defensive one are over. If you wanna play at the next level, especially in the eyes of top college coaches like Coach Lars, Tiffany and Kevin Cassese of UVA, Joe Brushy of UNC and John Toria Brown, who've all said. On this podcast, you have to be able to do everything on the field, and you have to be able to do it fast. That means offensive players who can ride hard and play defense. That means poles who can handle the ball, pass under pressure and take the shot. When it's there, it means short stick D mids, who not only defend like warriors, but also clear the ball with confidence and contribute in transition. But it's more than just skills. It's also about having a high lacrosse iq. You need to understand when to push the pace and when to settle, when to double, and when to stay home. When to go for the big play and when to make the smart one. The best players today are not only the most highly skilled, but they're also the smartest They know the game inside and out. That's on both sides of the ball. And finally, it's about mindset. Are you coachable? Are you flexible enough to play a new role? Can you embrace doing what's best for the team even if there's no glory involved? Because guess what? The most valuable players aren't always the leading scorers. They're the ones who can be trusted to fill any gap in any moment and elevate everyone around them. So if you wanna separate yourself, become the player who can do it all. Be versatile. That's who gets on the field, that's who gets to play college lacrosse, and that's who wins. Now we will hear a word from our sponsor. So there you have it. And also listen to your mother. Mothers are highly intuitive and well connected to their right brains. All in all, it helps to get in touch with your inner GPS. It is highly intelligent and never steers you wrong, and never takes you to a place of utter chaos. A place where there are no guardrails. Speaking of no guardrails that so many of our listeners describe the college lacrosse recruiting trail. So we've responded by putting excerpts of our 10 best interviews with legendary coaches, such as bill Tierney, Lars, Tiffany and Andy towers. Into a book that you can access on Kindle, it is available on Amazon, under the title inside the recruiting game insights from college lacrosse coaches. You will find a link to the book in our show notes. Now we will return to our interview and you will find that interview in progress. And so I would want to talk a little bit about the Garden City Lacks tradition. You can't really talk about Garden City lacks tradition without throwing out there. At some point the wood stick Classic playing the rival manhasset. So Steve tell the audience if they don't know a little bit about that, that tradition, it's one of the longest traditions in the whole country. And go ahead, give us a little background on that. Yeah, 1935 Jim Steen, right, is the first GC coach Julio Sylvestris the next coach, doc, and then myself, right? So I've, I've learned this, you know, someone like Jake White, you know, growing up being a social studies teacher at the high school, always had all the information for Doc and Dougie. You know, so I spent a lot of time with with Mr. White over the years kind of talking about this. And the history of it is just amazing. I grew up, just to rehash that, four coaches at Garden City in 90 years, right? That's it. I'm the fourth. Yes. That's amazing. So, well go ahead. Go ahead. Doc. Doc did 33 years. I, that, that's a long run. Long time. Got a long way to go then, Steve, so, I don't know if we, garden City won a game outta the first 10 years. So when you look at the trophy, I think we went over for to start, unfortunately, but we've been trying to fight and scrap back as best we can. I think my sophomore year we, we played him five times when I was in high school. First time sophomore year was only one time, and then my junior and senior year we played him in the, in the woods stick and in the county finals. So there was a run where we didn't do that during my career and then they came back to the bees. They've gone back and forth, but they've been in the bees a little bit now. So, you know that that second possible game there is always an interesting one. I think when there was only one possible game in some of those years, oh 7 0 8 2009, you know, everyone left it all on the table. And no one was kind of hanging on to anything for round two possibly, but, Right, right. I could see that. It's a wild environment to go over to Manhasset, you know, and play on a Saturday night to, to be at Garden City, you know, on a, on a Saturday afternoon. It's it's as good as it gets. The intensity level is extremely high. Try to get the guys who aren't, who haven't played in it before to understand that this is what it's like playing in like a, a state final, a county championship game, right. Absolutely. Yeah. And they've had some great players thinking of Gagliardi, the defenseman played on team USA and a number of others. And Garden City of course, has had a great, absolutely great tradition over the years. No doubt. So, you know, you talked a little bit about the comradery with you guys working together and you know, as I mentioned, coach Fennell really wanted you guys on here to be part of the podcast. Really proud of what you guys have done. And so tell us how important that is just to the formula of success as far as, you know, the intangibles, you know, you guys are. Great with the X's and the O's great with managing the team. But then you have these intangible things like, you know, just kind of getting, getting the team together, getting the team fired up and motivated, and then, you know, culture, you know, having like a working hard culture, having a selfless kind of culture. So tell us a little bit about that comradery and that connection that's important to winning. Coach Fennell, why don't you go first? Like I said, having Timmy on, you know, as a player and as a, as a coach, a colleague, and a, and a, a really good friend you know, I, I, I knew what I was getting when asking him to, to join us. You know, so, and he's done a super job. He is just a great person. So awesome to have him around the kids. He's been coaching football with us for a few years now. He will be with the JV team this fall, which will be awesome. Joe, I stole away from Plainview 14 years ago. Coach Ler reluctantly. Gotcha. Let me interview him and, and he's been with us and he's been coaching football for a while now too. And to be honest, that Coach Dougherty, coach Flatley kind of football connection, you know, we, we bring that to our preparation in, in, in lacrosse. I think that's really, really important. And it's not Summer League for us. We, we try to prepare and then, then you gotta play. But you know, the knowledge is, is given to them before, before it's like those, those film room sessions, those long film room sessions that Doc and flatly were so big on. Absolutely. We, we think it's important. And now in this day and age with something like score break which Timmy and Joe are all over you know, the, the kids can't hide. You know, their phone's always in their hands. Right. So here's a clip of what I was talking to you about in practice today, so, right. It's, it's pretty amazing. That's cool. And Joe, what, what do you have to say about all this? Yeah, I mean, I, my first thought when you say that is, is we love each other. The three of us really love each other. And I think that's really important. And I think that comes across to our guys and, and, you know, we think this is important for them. We want them to be as successful as possible. You know, you hear, we, we've been fortunate enough to be successful for, you know, a number of seasons and people will say, you know, how do you get yourself up for the next year? It's for our guys, you know, it's for our guys, for that group to be able to have a chance to win. And, and I do, I think like to the, the most important thing is that we do come across that, like we, we do enjoy being around each other. We have fun. We joke with each other. We, we make fun of each other. Like, and, and, and the guys can, can participate and do the same thing. And, and I think we've created that, that culture of it's time to work when it's time to work, but we can also have fun to each fun with each other, which is important. Right. Nice. And Tim, what would you like to add there? Yeah. A a lot of the same ideas you know, get, getting to work with these these guys is special. You know, and, and the, the staff that we have at the JV level, coach ler, coach Hughes Mike c Gary, Mike Lin are on staff as well. But you know, being, being part of Steve's first win as a player you know, me being a player as a head coach for him is great. And then, you know, late this year him getting his 300th win right. And being alongside of him as an assistant is something that didn't really click with me until, you know, maybe after the season was over. And I was like, wow, that's, that's pretty crazy. You know, like ob obviously no one else is is really involved in that. And then that's amazing. Yeah. Joe, Joe is, yeah, Joe, Joe is an unbelievable Xs and Os guy, and he, he's one of the only coaches that I really know that you give a 15 minute defensive segment too, and he'll, he'll use 45 minutes of practice to to, to kind of go over things. And he, he, he is not just wasting time, he's literally doing things that he knows are important for the kids. And you know, Steve and I have to kind of rummage through our papers and find a drill to do with, with the offensive guys. But guilty, no, in all seriousness, it's, it's really special. We've, we've great great camaraderie on staff and it's, it's just a really good balance that I think has, has, has worked for, few years, so, so hopefully we can keep it rolling. That's awesome. Good stuff. Yeah. One of the things we talk a lot about on the podcast is skills training and kinda what's, what skills are most important. And so, Joe, I would ask you first, like for kids who are in middle school as they're coming up, what would you want them working on? Like, most of the people listening to this podcast are on the summer circuit, like the Crofton, you know, what are things you want these middle school kids working on so that when they get to the high school, they've got these skills in place? So for, you know, for you to actually, the defenseman, we, we, we've talked about this, it's, it's all about it's, it's it's all about about about about About, about what's it all about? Ah, makes me think of a song. What's it all about, Joey? To find out. Tune in next week. Until we meet again. Here's to hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the get the lax scoop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.