S3 E23. Preparation, Inspiration, and Legacy, NILCA HOFer, Coach Steve Finnell, Part I.

In this episode of 'Get the Lax Scoop,' host Jaybird goes solo to interview Steve Finnell, the head coach of Garden City High School's lacrosse team. They explore Finnell's journey from playing lacrosse at Garden City and Duke University to becoming a celebrated coach. Finnell discusses his early influences, the importance of preparation in achieving success, and the role of key mentors in his life. The episode also honors past coaches, including Doc Doherty, and the impact of past players on maintaining the tradition of excellence at Garden City. Additionally, the episode features insights from assistant coaches Joe Jacovina and Tim Holman on the current defensive strategies and team dynamics.

00:00 Introduction to Get the Lax Scoop

00:23 Meet the Hosts and Special Guest

00:59 Solo Hosting and Special Guest Introduction

01:15 Interview with Coach Steve Finnell

02:41 Steve Finnell's Early Lacrosse Journey

06:54 High School Years and Influential Coaches

11:39 Mindset Minute: Preparation is Key

14:23 Remembering Coach Doc Doherty

17:40 College Lacrosse Recruiting Insights

21:26 Duke Lacrosse Experience

24:19 Garden City Lacrosse Alumni Impact

26:39 Introducing Garden City High School Coaches

27:21 Defensive Strategies with Coach Joe

29:51 Transition to Coach Finnell's Leadership

30:25 Conclusion and Sign-Off

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Inside the Recruiting Game: Insights From College Lacrosse Coaches
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Links to training videos:
Master The 5 Best Dodges From the Wing!
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SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts

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Lacrosse Charities Mentioned in S2 E36:
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https://15forlife.org/

Transcript

0:00

It's time for Get the Lack Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know in the game of lacrosse. We take lack seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join host Big Dog and Jaybird and the biggest names in the game brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training. Ron Doglish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the Sports Foundation. And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All American midfielder at Brown. He was the captain of the U. S. Junior National Team and is the founder of JML. And Joining us in the studio, Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training, helping the next generation of lacrosse players get to the next level Well, friends, I'm going solo for this podcast as both the big dog and our roving reporter, Steve gfi, are out of the country on secret special assignments. But I could not be happier to be here myself. And in a moment you will learn why. Here we go. Our next guest is the head coach at my alma Mater Garden City on Long Island, a position he attained in 2007 when he took over a program that had won four New York State titles over their 70 plus year history. However, in less than 20 years under his guidance, Mighty Trojans have won six New York State Championships. He's a graduate of Garden City himself, where he was an outstanding lacrosse and football player and went on to Duke University where he played lacrosse, graduating in 1995 with a degree in American history. In 2012, he was named the Interscholastic Lacrosse Coaches Association National Coach of the Year when Garden City went undefeated and finished the season as the number one ranked team in the country this season, as he led Garden City to another New York State title, he was also chosen to be one of the few coaches to be inducted into the National Interscholastic Lacrosse Coaches Association Hall of Fame, which will take place this fall. Please welcome the one, the only coach, Steve Fennell. Thanks, Jay. I appreciate that. That's that's a great introduction. It's pretty overwhelming. Hey, I actually left a lot out. I had to trim it down. I'm very, very glad you're here to join us. This is awesome. Thanks for having me. So Steve, after talking about all the coaching stuff, we love kind of taking it back to the very beginning as far as lacrosse goes. So tell us when you first started playing the game and your first memories of playing lacrosse and who might have been an influence on you early on there? It's a great question. Honestly. Probably watching your class, the 86 class, the 85 class in town my family wasn't a, a huge lacrosse family necessarily. I played baseball through eighth grade. Bob DeFelice. I always make fun of him. Oh, yeah. Still around city. I tell him you were my last coach before I switched to lacrosse. So he, he, he takes that you know, he thinks I'm making fun of him, but honestly, in seventh and eighth grade you know, just the idea, a lot of my buddies were playing lacrosse. It was the, it is the sport so, so popular in town and, I just became curious. So I went to some camps going into ninth grade. There was a JVA and a JVB team, and a funny story coach Flatley, Tom Flatley huge influence in my life. I went up and asked legend Na, national legend coach Tom Flatley. Amazing. So he, in seventh and eighth grade, I'm playing baseball for Coach Steve Felise at the middle school. He's coaching the seventh and eighth grade girls lacrosse team. And I'm trying to explain to them that, you know, he, me and my friends are trying to explain that he won the, won the gold medal for the world national men's team in 1980. And they're like, oh, he's just silly. A coaching team, USA. So that, that's what he was up to at that point in time. Pretty funny. I had to go up and ask Coach Flatley and I said, I know I haven't played before. I'd like to have a chance to try out for the JVA team. Coach Flatley and his wisdom was very direct and brief with me. Mm-hmm. And told me no I was very persistent and and he let me try out which was great. Good move for me. I played for him. And Peter Bennett who was coaching with him at that time on the JV team. Great. Yeah. What, excuse me. Yeah, I was gonna say Peter Bennett, great defenseman for Garden City. Played at Hobart, was an All American, so, yeah. Yes, he was awesome. Great guy. I remember that distinctly playing for coach and him and, and then was able to do pretty well with it. And coach was such a did amazing job. Peter ran the defense. Obviously coach ran the offense. And we had a very good very good team as a bunch of my buddies, Sean Miller, you know, Andy Croft and Nick Lane, those guys, pat Marvin. And then had an opportunity from there to, to kind of, you know, get going with it. There really wasn't a, you know, really wasn't anyone in particular that really helped me. It was kind of just watching all my buddies play it and following the varsity team, being so excited to watch the team win in 86 and, and 87 year, you know, your year with an unbelievable team. I, I don't know. Mm-hmm. Kind of just got bit by the bug a little bit. Right. That's great. But I mean, Tom Flatley, what an amazing guy. I mean, he has like one of the best records as a football coach on Long Island and actually in the nation. And as you said, he coached the senior team, USA team in lacrosse, and then he's humble enough to just coach JV for years in, in lacrosse. I mean, he had like a 98% winning percentage as a JV coach. It was, was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. He was awesome. So when I started coaching Back Garden City, I did one year with him and John Scocia who played for him. Mouse. Yeah, mouse played for him at Sowan back in the day. And and that was a really, that was a fun experience. Then I went with with Coach Dougherty and Dougie for, for about a year or so. But no, it was it, it. There really wasn't anyone in particular. It was really kind of the idea like, this sport is just, it looks like so much fun. I'm gonna give it a try. My parents weren't thrilled that I was leaving baseball, you know? And, and but I, I gave it a shot. It's probably the best decision I ever made. Consider considering where I am now, what I'm doing. Right. Absolutely. It's, yeah, you know, sometimes you gotta take a chance, but coach Flatley was baseball's too boring. You know, there's too much standing around my mom. Yeah, no, I, I played baseball too and my mom could not stand baseball'cause there was a lot of standing around and, you know, long Island in March, it's usually kind of cold. So she was like, all right, get your running around out there. She was glad to see me jump on the lacrosse field. Absolutely. Let's, let's jump to your high school years where I know playing football, you know, was just as important to you as playing lacrosse. And so tell us about your high school experience, you know, academically, athletically, who were some important figures there, and and then did you have the seed kind of planted in your head for your future career while you were there? Yeah. I mean, from academics, football and lacrosse was really important in, in high school. I think I retired from basketball after freshman year, you know, no, no room for the five 10 center anymore. Me too. So you know, and then you were just working out and stuff in the wintertime, but you know, coach Flatley being my football coach for, you know, three years on varsity football it was such an important program to be a part of, you know, still an assistant now, been an assistant at Garden City Football since 2001. It was great to work with him. And Dave Inger took over in 2016 after coach retired, and coach was still around. It was great. He'd go up in the booth and he'd get on the headphones every once in a while, Jay, and just throw in a comment. And it's like classic one liners. Yeah. You know, to play for, for, for Coach Flatley for football was amazing. And then he was the jv coach. And then you had Coach Dougherty as the varsity lacrosse coach. And eventually Doc was the JV football coach. You, you really can't find a, a staff like that in, in any high school. And people always asked me growing up, and then when I was starting as a younger coach, why is it so good? I'm like, well, I, I, if I tell you who the two guys are that are in charge of the programs, you know they're in charge of the boys ninth through 12th grade. So it was just amazing. And. Su such very different people, doc and and flats, right. But they, they were great together and I learned so much from, from both of them. So it was pre pretty cool, pretty cool experience, right? That's great. Yeah. For, we'll talk about Coach Doherty and coaching lacrosse, but for people who don't know, he was a great football coach and Coach Flatley was an assistant coach to him, and then Doc left so he could watch his son play football at Penn. And then when he came back, again, being humble, he coaches the jv and, and no wonder Gordon City Football was just tops and, and you're doing a heck of a job there too with Coach Ettinger. You know, probably even taking it up a notch beyond what Coach Dougherty and Coach Flatley had. I mean, it's. Great, great tradition with football as well. It's been a lot of fun. It's been a great, we've been on a great run. I think the, the current record is one of the top you know, undefeated streaks in the, in the nation. So we're, we're pretty fortunate. Some, some great players. And the soccer, we have some soccer guys with lacrosse, and we have a lot of football guys playing lacrosse and the, and the football lacrosse has, has helped us a lot for sure. You know, the, you know, like yourself, like, like me, you know, those, those two sports seem to go hand in hand pretty well. And I, I think it's continued, which is we we're excited about. Right. Good deal. Yeah. And then, so thinking about your high school lacrosse career, you guys won the Long Island Championship in 19 90, 19 91, and had a very talented team and a lot of those guys went on to play in college, which we can talk about in a little while. But let's talk about Coach Doherty and coach Dwyer, your coaches there at Garden City. Tell us what your experience was with them, and then what kind of impact did they have on you today and, and, and in fact, way back when you made your choice to become a coach, what kind of impact did they have? Yeah. Coach Dougherty and was larger than life figure as, as you know. And he was just someone who just had such a presence. I think when I, I think about Coach Dougherty and, and Coach Flatley, I'll get back to in a little bit, but I. Coach, coach Doherty's preparation, you know, lacrosse wise was amazing. You know if you remember the, the little board outside his room, you know, he'd pin up the scatter reports and you know do his do his film work his handwritten reports. He was very, very neat handwriting. Very meticulous. And he draw all the man up, plays everything you were gonna see, clear his rides. And, you know, I don't know if other people did that. You know, we, we've tried to take that to the, to the next level, you know, modern day wise with other scouting information, but nothing better than pen and paper. And, and coach was ahead of the game and he expects you to be prepared. Coach Sch Wirey I still talk to him. I talked to him earlier today. Oh, that's great. We, we used, we used one of his man UP plays from the eighties in one of our, one of our key playoff games. Nice. That's great. So I, I took a video of it and sent it to him, and he just started laughing. But you know, he, he had great man UP plays. I mean, we'd have like four or five just. Amazing place. It was great. That's funny. Wow. He was great. And he's just such a good offensive mind, you know? And we, we still you know, talk and shoot ideas off each other and everything. How about if we, how about if we transition to. J m l and let's do that. We'll get into a little bit of the mindset. We'll do a mindset minute here. There's an old phrase in sports that goes something like this, that preparation is the separation. As was just mentioned, coach Doc Doherty and Coach Doug Dwyer were sticklers when it came to preparation. So many coaches and players want to know, how can I be successful? One of the biggest keys is your preparation and when is that preparation taking place? At practice? Not at first. At first, it's taking place outside of practice. For coaches that is doing the research so you can have an effective scouting report. And next is forming the game plan to best attack your opponent, and finally, effectively implementing that game plan at team Practice for players. As we've talked about many times before on this podcast, the preparation that creates separation is working on your skills, mindset, and lax IQ on your own or with friends outside of practice. So when you get to practice, you're ready to give your very best to your coaches and your teammates. So as a coach and as a player, we are bringing the very best version of ourselves to bear on the challenge of becoming a champion. There's another quote that comes to mind, and I'm paraphrasing here, but it goes like this. Everybody wants to win on game day. So the question isn't who wants to win on game day? The question is, who wants to win on the day of practice? Yeah. Not just one day of practice, but every day of practice. So let's think about it. The difference between a good player and a great one, a decent team and a championship team is never decided on game day. It's decided in the dark early morning or late, late night reps in the effort you put in when no one's watching, and the habits you form when it's uncomfortable, inconvenient, and unglamorous. Everyone wants the reward, but few choose to do what it takes to make it happen. Preparation is the great separator. It reveals who's willing to sacrifice to sweat, to keep going when they don't feel like it. Game day is just a reflection of your identity, and your identity is built in your preparation and in your practice. If you want to be confident under pressure, if you want to trust your teammates and yourself when it counts, you have to earn that every single day well before the game is played. So the real question is, who are you becoming in your preparation, because that's the version of you that's going to show up on game day. And also, I wanted to add a few words about Doc Doherty. Everyone remembers Coach Doherty as a great coach, but also as a real hard ass, which he was. But every now and then, he would prise you with his softer side. When I was a senior, way back in 1987, we had a loaded squad The year before in 86, we went undefeated, 25 and oh and won Garden City's first ever state title. From that team, we only graduated three seniors, so in 87 we did not have much trouble going undefeated. Again, we were 23 and oh, and facing an uncharacteristically weak Yorktown team. And outside of their starters, they literally only had a handful of subs on their sideline. They didn't look very impressive. Our coaches had prepared us well, as they always did, and us players simply did not show up. We were looking past this game and had our mind set on a rematch with West Genesee who we had lost to in the state finals back in 85. If we'd win, that game would happen next, but that rematch never happened. As we got beat by one last minute goal in the New York State semi-finals Doc had every reason to be furious at us after that game, but he wasn't. He showed more composure than I think any of us would've given him credit for. I'll never forget how painful it was to approach the equipment room where Coach Dougherty was collecting our uniforms. With everything in my being, I was dreading handing over my Garden City jersey knowing I would never wear it again. Doc knew what I was going through, and instead of pointing out my shortcomings that day, he took the time to calmly tell me that I had had a great season, regardless of the game's final outcome, and that I would never be defined as a lacrosse player, or more importantly, as a person by Winsor losses, but rather by the content of my character, by how hard I had worked, how I had been a strong leader as a senior and as a teammate. Who always did what was best for the team, for a man who had coached with an iron fist at the end of the road of my playing career. In that moment, he showed a tremendous amount of compassionate acceptance of this unwanted ending and demonstrated to me what it is really that defines us, and that is our character. One final quote comes to mind as I think of Coach Dougherty, may he rest in peace, and that is. An army of deer led by a lion will always defeat an army of lions led by a deer. Coach Dougherty was our lion. He wasn't perfect by any means, but he had more depth of character than most people would ever realize. Now we will hear a word from our sponsor. So there you have it. And also listen to your mother. Mothers are highly intuitive and well connected to their right brains. All in all, it helps to get in touch with your inner GPS. It is highly intelligent and never steers you wrong, and never takes you to a place of utter chaos. A place where there are no guardrails. Speaking of no guardrails that so many of our listeners describe the college lacrosse recruiting trail. So we've responded by putting excerpts of our 10 best interviews with legendary coaches, such as bill Tierney, Lars, Tiffany and Andy towers. Into a book that you can access on Kindle, it is available on Amazon, under the title inside the recruiting game insights from college lacrosse coaches. I, I think it came to a point where I was finally working camp for him and Doc I was probably 23, 24 and he was yelling at me and I said to him, I go, you can't put me on the end line anymore, coach. You can't yell. Right, right. There was always that point. I don't think I was ever saying that to Doc, but Doug, I could at least, at least beat back at him a little bit. Right, right. I gotcha. Yeah. And thinking about one of the best teams probably that you coached was that 2012 team and Doug Dwyer probably had moved on, I think as a coach. Right. And, and there your coach and his son Devin was, was a heck of a player. Right. Amazing. And you had Gutter D on that team too. I think Gut D might have been a junior, but you know, looking into the archives there, tell us a little bit about that. That team. That was some group. Yeah, that was some, yeah. That was amazing. So I coached all three of Dougie's boys. So that was awesome. Dylan, Connor and Devin and you know, the 2012 group that's in the middle of a run for us. Where the 2010 group really, you know, in my, in my time as a coach, you know, we won the counties in seven, eight, and nine. And Docs last year we won the counties as well in six, ran into Huntington. Amazing team in oh six and oh seven. Got tripped up in oh eight and oh nine and that 2010 group and 11 group those guys were amazing. We, we went to the state finals in 2010, went to the state finals in 2011, and then won it in 2012 and 13. So we got to the last game of the season, four years in a row. Wow. Was feeling. That's amazing. It was. Yeah, it was. And I give a lot of credit to those my 2010, 11 seniors for kind of getting us getting us there and getting us over the hump. And 2012, I, I think we weren't sure we had all the pieces I. But it really kind of jelled into a super team. And Devon's one of the better players I've ever seen. Righty, lefty. Great. You know, head, you know, IQ for the game was was next level. Didn't say a lot. Very quiet. Oh yeah. But, but very cerebral and you could talk to him and not a rah rah guy, but you don't need that. And all the time. And that was some group a lot, lot of fun. Some very, very good athletes. But again, the 2011 group and 10 group kind of got us to that point. And then Guttering and senior year and Eddie Blatz and Scotty Dean, Antonio, and some other guys as well. Brian Badgett, we went back again. I, that, that kind of culture of, of winning. You know, brings, brings out different things in guys. I know for, for you guys, I, and I know the history of it, you know, this is, this is my job. I'm also a social studies teacher, right? But I know you guys went in 85 and I'm sure going in 85 helped you get over in 86 to, to win it. And I kind of think that we're, we're fortunate in Garden City where we've had some success in other sports. It's not by luck, but you know, hard work from the kids in it. But I think that experience gives them some confidence. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that first championship is always the toughest. Like you're gonna, you're gonna hit that ceiling a couple times like you guys did, and that kinda makes it all the sweeter when you actually do win it. Right. No, it was great. You know, to have that crew and I, I don't know if Doug would've spoken to me if we weren't able to win that in 2012 Yeah. Yeah. When his son was a senior. Right. That's great. All right. And as we mentioned, we'll, we'll scoot up towards college time. You played your lacrosse at Duke, and you know, at that point, you know, you guys had to be pivotal in helping Duke create a successful lacrosse program. I mean, people today hear Duke and just kind of think of this perennial powerhouse that they've always been, but you know, the fact is, you know, I think you guys were the first teams going to the playoffs for them. You, I think you won the first time, one of the first teams that won an a CC championship in a while. And I know when my buddy Keith Melchione was playing for Duke, they were not winning a CCC championships. So tell me what it was like you know, playing at Duke back then. It was awesome. So the two places that I was really down to for recruiting were Brown and Duke. Right. And having stayed with you and Andy Towers on my recruiting visit I think I I didn't steer you in the wrong direction, I hope. No, it was great. I remember. I remember it well and and then I think I went down to Duke the following weekend and stayed with Mike Murphy, Oh, gotcha. Again, and and Keith, I think we were both seniors that year as well. So that was like coach's first year at Duke and we ended up being his first class, so, right. And to give everyone a timeline, this was the middle of February my senior year in high school. Right. And I committed shortly after that. And and that was I was like, I think one of his first recruits. So it just changed a lot over the years For sure. Right. Absolutely. Yeah, so let's, you were literally were his first class, huh? Coach Pressler. Yeah, he was, he was unbelievable. The intensity that he brought to to the game was was very, very high. He's still that way, and so I still stay in touch with him. We actually went down to Texas a couple years ago and played his Highland Park team who were awesome. They won the state championship and he was he's still the same he is still gonna bring it on. He hasn't lost any intensity, huh? No, no, definitely not. So to go from Coach Flatley and coach Dougherty to Mike Pressler there really, you know, there wasn't, you weren't missing too much. I'm sure Timmy can attest to when he went to college, you hadn't really heard anything new when you got to college. Everything had kind of been already said. That's great. Good stuff. All right, so Steve, now let's bring you back to the Garden City Laxs alums in your high school class had a big impact on the college lacrosse scene back then. Had yourself at Duke. We had Sean Miller at UVA, got to the finals in 94, losing in overtime to his high school teammate, Nick Lane at Princeton. And then Nick that year as part of a national championship in 1994. But that was his second championship'cause he was a freshman in, in 92. So really cool to think back on that group. We had Andy Crofton playing at Penn. You had Pat Marvin playing at Harvard. And Eugene Curran also at Duke, he'd been an All American at Garden City. so tell us, you know, how special a cross has been for you guys and how it's helped you stay connected throughout the years. It is been great. It's super, super class. I guess you just didn't really know, you know, any better than than what you were used to and, and watching previous classes, like your, your, your group in 87 and other groups come through, kind of just kind of the expectation. But funny story about Andy. I know Andy ends up being the all time leading scorer at Penn. Right. And was hanging on for dear life, for that record for years. I think in 2012 we played a RDA Coy and there was a, a player, Joe will probably know Lefty Nick Doctor, doctor Ian, doctor Nick, Nick, doctor. And and I told Andy after the game, I said, you gotta watch out. This kid's real good. He might get you. Yeah. And four years later, I think he did break the record, but, Oh, that's funny. Pretty funny, but no, some great, great things from, you know, playing Peter Murphy when I was down at Duke and he was at Carolina. Oh, right. Seeing a lot of our buddies playing the Marvin brothers when we played Harvard, Mike and Pat were both there. Right. So pretty amazing. And got to play Nick at Princeton when I was at Duke. He wouldn't say hi to me on the field. So I was, I knew the intensity level was very high. Right. And, and to play Sean was amazing. You know, one of my best friends to play him at Virginia. Some of the stories are just you know, off the charts, but really I, I don't know. I, I try to tell our guys, I. Say that, you know, hopefully you get the same experience and play against with some of your buddies and against some of them, you know Jack Caden and Brendan Staub being on the National Championship team this year. Right. See them after that. Just pretty amazing for Garden Sea Lacrosse to, to have that. But you know, you, you'll love to see them continue to have success at the next level. Absolutely. Okay. And now we would like to introduce Garden City High School's defensive coordinator. Joe Jaa. He's been with the Trojans and Coach Fennell since 2011. Over that time, he's helped lead Garden City's defense that is consistently at the top of Long Island High Schools for goals against. In all 14 of his seasons, he's been a part of 10 Nassau County Championships, nine Long Island Championships, has made seven state finals appearances and helped the team win six New York State titles. So welcome coach. Thank you very much. Thanks for having us. All right. And I'm gonna introduce Tim in a minute, but I got a question for Coach Joe here first. You know, you've had so much success over the years, you know, as the saying goes, defense wins championships. I'm sure Coach Steve and Tim don't like to hear that that much since they run the offense. But so, you know, I played for coach Dr. Doherty and he ran a, he ran this zone that I, I believe he learned from the pen coach way back when, and it was a really good matchup man zone. And I was just curious, like, when you took over, how much changed, how much stayed the same? What, what type of defense is Garden City running these days? So I, I think at this point it's, it's a lot of man to man. I think we've become multiple I think when Coach was there. Me you know, through this whole process, I think the foundation is, is about fundamentals, is about playing good. Defense is about playing team defense, whether it is the matchup zone that coach ran or some, you know, man, that we ran for the most part in the beginning. And I think now we, we play some zone, we play some man, we, we shut guys off at times. We, we, we, we try to do as many different things as we can. I think for us, the best part is our guys are, are, are so smart and so into it that I can really throw anything at them. And, and, and they're really, they're, they're ready to do what whatever I ask of them. So we try to rely on our fundamentals, but at the end of the day, we can do whatever we really need to. That's great. That's really cool. So they're able to pick up, if you're doing man to man, different slide packages like we do in the college game and, and things like that. Absolutely. Yeah, we, we'll slide from the crease, we'll slide adjacent. We'll, we, we can, we talk our way through it. Sometimes they have some great questions or some great ideas that we might implement. So it's, it's really kind of a, a team approach. Right. That's great. Good deal. Next I'd like to introduce another assistant coach at Garden City High School, Tim Holman. Tim has been on the staff at Garden City with Coach Fennell since 2016 and he's a 2007 Garden City High School graduate. And a 2011 graduate of Hofstra University where he played shorts stick team mid and was the team captain for the pride his senior year in 2011. Welcome to the show Tim. Thank you for having me. And I saw a great career highlight there for Tim in a playoff game against Maryland, who was I think number three at the time. 2010. He gets two goals and two assists and almost knocked off the TURPs back then. Some good stuff, like to see that bow was thrown right to me. I got lucky. Now you played for coach Dougherty in high school, Tim, and then before your senior year doc retires. And then Coach Fennell takes over. He had been an assistant there for a few years, so he, you know, coach Fennell comes in, takes over the reigns as a first time head coach. So what was that transition like back then? You know, really. With Steve having already been on staff, like you had mentioned before, it, it, it really it, it, it really was it, it, it really was was was It, it, it really was. What, what was it to find out? Tune in next week. until we meet again. Here's to hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the get the lax scoop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.