Get The Lax Scoop

S3 E16. NCAA D1 Championship Weekend Re-Cap: An MIAA COY & MD Terp Dad Weighs In!

• Jay McMahon • Season 3 • Episode 16

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In this episode of Get the Lax Scoop, hosts Big Dawg and Jaybird and a special guest dive into the exciting 2025 NCAA Lacrosse playoff matchups for this past Championship Weekend. They discuss team performances, standout players, and discuss coaching calls including insights into the PSU v Cornell, Maryland v. Syracuse Final Four match ups as well as the Championship game of Maryland v. Syracuse. The crew blends deep lacrosse knowledge with fun banter, ensuring a compelling listen for lacrosse enthusiasts.

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Links to training videos:
Master The 5 Best Dodges From the Wing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7LDOcQQ6Q&t=88s

Blazing Shots... on the Run!
https://youtu.be/XiptPlM63oQ

Check us out...

On YouTube @jaymcmahonlax23
On Instagram @jaymcmahonlax23
On Facebook @: facebook.com/jmcmahonlax23. Page name: Jay McMahon Lacrosse

Jules Heningburg: https://thelaxlab.com/

Check out!... Coach Tintle's Lacrosse Barn:

https://g.co/kgs/eXedCXf

SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts

Brian Cain Daily Dominator on Apple Podcasts



Lacrosse Charities Mentioned in S2 E36:
https://www.4thefuturefoundation.org/

https://www.harlemlacrosse.org/

https://15forlife.org/



It's time for Get the Lack Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know in the game of lacrosse. We take lack seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join host Big Dog and Jaybird and the biggest names in the game brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training. Ron Doglish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the Sports Foundation. And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All American midfielder at Brown. He was the captain of the U. S. Junior National Team and is the founder of JML. And Joining us in the studio, Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training, helping the next generation of lacrosse players get to the next level all ladies and gentlemen, welcome to it's Jay. It's a, it's a somber episode for me because nothing I love more than the college across season. And this is gonna be the college wrap up episode of Get the Lack Scoop. It is a bit somber Ron. And Tuesday I was a little down in the dumps and didn't really know why, and then I realized, oh, it was the high of Memorial Day weekend. I'm coming off of that, but I was really looking forward to airing this issue of get the lack scoop and having our next guest on, so. Jay, we have, we have I, I'm, I'm not gonna give away the name of our guests, but this is kind of lacrosse family royalty here. Oh my God. I mean, big time. Jay, you're high. Good way to wrap up the college season. I can't imagine anyone who's more closely connected to college lacrosse and lacrosse in general than this guy. I mean, if you had a lacrosse footprint, this guy would be Bigfoot, lacrosse, family footprint, veritable Sasquatch. But let me get into this intro. Yeah. Our next guest is the head coach of the varsity lacrosse team at Calvert Hall College High School, a posties held since 1996. He's been named Coach of the Year six times in 1996, his inaugural season in 2003 when Calvert Hall won its first Maryland Interscholastic Athletic Association's, a conference, which is the MIAA Lacrosse Championship. The best. High school lacrosse in the country. Jay? Hey, it's up. It's up there. Unquestionably, it's one of the best I'm sure our guests will attest to in 2012, when he led the team to its second championship, as well as after winning conference titles in 2017 a year. He was also named the All USA Boys Coach of the Year by USA today in 2018 and in 2019. And that was an unprecedented three straight championships. And of course, this past season that just ended, he led the Cardinals to their sixth and I aa title the most by any program since the league's inception. He's a graduate of the University of North Carolina, where he was a political science major and a close defenseman for the to heels as a senior in 1991. He was an All American selection and a co-captain he helped the heels achieve an undefeated NCAA championship season. Please welcome to the show, the one, the only. Brian Kelly, thanks for having me, Jay. It's good to see you guys again. Rob. I'm looking forward to it. Awesome. Kelly. Great to see you, Jay. And let's, let's just, let's get Brian used to how this goes. Let's bring it to us. It should have been us playing Carolina in that 91 National Championship game. Fricking baba Burle. God TURPs. It's bullshit. Is that, is that who you guys lost to cab it back to us? 91. I've got my, here's some just Ivy League championship. We were undefeated until we lost to the TURPs. Yep. Yeah. Could've been undefeated Versus undefeated. Should who, who, who still holds the NCAA playoff record for saves in a game. Wrong. Rob Cabbott. Really? The 1991 Maryland team against Brown. What? He had like 32. 32 Saves something crazy smaller. Had at least 30 against us in 88 in the quarterfinals. Really? Yeah. That's unbelievable. Absolute beast. Yeah. Something part of ours was bad shooting. They can't put Give it all to cavi it. Yeah. McMahon Christ, shooting it into a stick. God bless America. Alright, Jay. But, but let us, I digress, Jay. Yeah. Let's, let's pull forward to this championship weekend we've had. I was sorry to miss the the Final Four lead in show. I, I, I did listen. Coach Staria, Tom Towers did, did a great job, but but I'm really looking forward to talking about this championship weekend with someone who lived it as both apparent and a lacrosse aficionado. Let's, let's do a little, don't know. Let's explain. Brian's son is Daniel Kelly. Yes. He is a four year starter for the TURPs. Has been in three national championship games, won a championship with them in 2022, and one of the top point getters and goal scorers on the team this year. Big number 45. So it's been exciting watching his career. Had a heck of a career. Oh, thank you. You were very proud of him. Well, you definitely should be. I mean, what an, what an amazing experience and career he's had. And I heard it. I was doing a little research and reading. It was such a tough decision. He's like, I'm really letting my family down. I think he actually committed to UNC'cause Brian of course went to u and he, he did some of his brothers, and I know his older bro, brother Jacob Daniel's brother. Yep. And was like, I just, I'm sorry. I want to, I wanna be a turf. That like a tough, tough moment for the family. Not at all. It was never needing to apologize at all. I mean, for him, it just committed really young and then as, as time went on and, and he just really had a, a desire to be a turp and coach told me what recruit, like when he opened up his recruiting coach Tillman recruited him. And it's interesting, after the, the Quarterfinal Georgetown game, I just sent him a text, Daniel, after the game and just saying how, you know, God's ways are better than our ways in so many ways. Things because it's just like, for him to make that decision to go to Maryland and how great of a decision it was for him to play for just an amazing coach and coach Tillman and just to be a part of. You four opportunities to win a national championship and to just to grow as a person and as a player there is he just has so much to be thankful for, even though it didn't end the way we all wanted it to end for him I, he wouldn't or nor we as a family would've traded anything for, for that experience. And a nice added bonus to have'em close to home too. Right. Yeah, it was great. It was really nice. Yeah, it was great. So guys, let's get into talking about these games this weekend and let's start with the Maryland, Syracuse semi-final. And guys, you're gonna have to help me here. I got to watch one half of Final four lacrosse'cause my daughter was graduating on Saturday from Lafayette College, but the one half I, well that is no excuse. It's called a DVR. I've watched these games too many three times to prepare for our. All our listeners out there. Come on. Thank you. Thank you Jay. I'll carry it. Appreciate that. I'll carry it. I was gonna segue into, I apparently only needed to watch one half of the Syracuse Maryland game'cause I caught the first half and that was about all you needed to see.'cause Maryland just dominated Syracuse in that first half. And I'm gonna leave it to you guys, but I'll just say that that half seemed to me to epitomize kind of what Syracuse was all year like I'm surprised they got as far as they did. Right. And like they could be unbelievable at times and then at times it was kind of hard to figure. Yeah, also great credit obviously to, to Logan goal. Well it, they were down Harvard in their playoff game, eight to two, the same score at halftime. And they could come back and they had a few other games like that that they were down, but you're not coming back on the TURPs. So anyway. Brian, what was your sense of that matchup and what led Maryland to get off to such a great start? Yeah, I, I just think, well, Maryland defensively just shut them down with Logan. And then Shaller did a great job on Lina, and, you know, Selina's a great player. And when you can take him away, that, that, that's huge. And I also think our D mids were were excellent against their top mids, you know, and they did a, a really good job, good job of just taking them away. And I thought offensively Marilyn was very business-like they really moved the ball and, and they were precise in their offense and they just played a very efficient game from top to bottom. I think you're right. I would've expected like Will Shallow to play great, McNaney to play great, but I was surprised how well those D Mids did. You know, nothing, you know, to say like, I didn't, you know, that I underestimated them. It's just that the Syracuse midfielders are very good. They kind of initiate a lot of their offense through their midfielder. They do, they score a lot of goals and it was just like a nothing burger out there. I mean, it was like. Forget it. Look, I think d mids the secret sauce to win it. If you have good shorts, stick D mids. Yeah. It, it, it's, it's huge because you don't have to slide and you know, it's really the secret sauce. And I think, you know, if you looked at the two teams in that championship, they both had excellent shorts stick D mid. Right. They carried the, the way for them. That's a great point. They're kind of like the, the cornerbacks of the NFL. Yeah. Like they get picked on and if they're rock solid, you're gonna be in great shape. And if they're a little on the weak side, you're gonna be, it's gonna be a long day. So it's a good point. And they're the guys that no one really talks about, but they're the guys that everyone in their team in the locker room know that if we don't have these guys, we don't win. They're the unsu heroes to every team. Right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you were talking about the short stick d mids. I also think today in the, in the clearing game, right, if you got athletic d mids that can get that ball up and out and start offense on the other end is just huge. It's huge. It's, it's huge. And you know, like the one thing about Maryland and just watching them a lot, they're, they're very good in transition and teams tried to take their transition away because of their DD mids are so good. And, and their polls are with the Kid Larkin and Jack McDonald. Those two both are two of the best polls I've seen throughout all of college, across and so it, and, and Maryland's clearing game is the, the, the highest rated clearing game in, in all across, it's over 90%. So, you know, they, they cleared with great efficiency in that game against Syracuse. Mark and had two goals. Yep. And, and they were getting up and down the field. You're right. Yeah. One of the things just notes from the preview before was like if the Syracuse Faceoff guy I think his name's Johnny Mullen. Yep. If he could dominate.'cause he was like 62% for the year. Maryland was kinda like 51, 50 2%. It was like, oh, if he dominates, that would be great. He did fine, but it was more like 46%, you know, he lost the battle. Yeah. I mean, for whatever reason they really did well. And then McCool played well on that first half, really the first quarter. And next thing you know, it's, you know, it's eight to two after that second quarter. And it was like, you know, those two areas of potential strength. And, and they shut down the transition game of Syracuse quite significantly. Yeah, they did. And you have to, you know,'cause they're as skilled as any team you're gonna face, you know, they get up and down and that's what, you know, as a dad watching it, you know, I never felt comfortable, you know, it was like 11 six. I'm like, if they get it to four, you know, Syracuse and get a run. And Maryland always did a good job with just never letting them get to four, you know, they kept them at five pretty much throughout the game, so, yeah. Yeah. But particularly with that Syracuse team, back to your d midi point, Brian, if, if you can win your matchups and not slide, because boy, if you get sliding and trying to recover against Syracuse, I, I've, at times their ball movement offensively was just off the charts. But if you're, if, if you can win your matchups and not slide, you kind of take'em outta that game. Because, you know, Jay, you've said before, they're not the most physical athletic group necessarily. Off to Dodge, you know? Right. So their secret sauce, when they were really humming offensively seemed to be in transition or getting teams moving and sliding and just, you know, moving the ball faster than you could recover defensively. Right. You really gotta play the ball with them. You can't let them dictate the tempo. Yeah. And if you just give them space and they, they have their hands free. They're, they're, they're, you know, they can throw a behind the back pass right. On a dime, you know, like, yeah, you gotta be all over those guys. And that's what Marilyn did a, I thought, did a really good job in not letting them get and dictate the tempo offensively. Yeah, absolutely. That's kind of, and Jay, it seemed like in that game, number 45, kind led the TURPs offense. I think three point performance, two and one in that game. I think so. Two and one. I think Spanos had four in one, but Daniel Kelly, number 45 is right there. Jay, who's on the, the episode with us today. I'm, I'm just saying, looking at my stats, that's all. He was an absolute leader. There's no question about it. Yeah, Daniel had a good day, but it's, it's anything like he lives off of others, so it was, it was really nice, you know, and it's it, good thing about Maryland, it's, it's always somebody different, every game, you know, a lot with the way they play, so. Right. It's, it was, it kinda reminds you of great, really great championship teams are kinda like that when everybody's a threat. Yeah. You can go back to, you know, look at so many different sports. I, I always look when the Yankees were really good being a New Yorker, it was in like 99 and 2000 when every single guy had like 20 home runs. Like nobody hit 50, but all nine guys hit 20 plus. So that's kind of what this, this TURPs team made me think of that plus their defense. Now defense is like the top ranked defense in the country. They had the best goalie in the country. And then their offense though was super solid. They were all dangerous. They moved the ball incredibly well. They're incredibly unselfish. You know, that, that's the thing. I mean, with Tilt, like you watch, they don't take bad shots. They don't shoot turnovers. They're just very efficient. You know, if you look at the stats of them that every kid is, if they get six shots a game, that's a lot. And you see some of these guys who play get 22 shots a game and you're like, you know, and they score three goals and everybody's talking about their three goals, but I'm like, shooting percentage is gross. You know, so, you know, it's a matter of like, and then whenever you shoot and you miss, you allow the. Fence to reset and get back into their formation and you know, you take'em out of the, the spin where tills does an amazing job of making sure that these guys take the best shot. Right? Absolutely. And I think some people aren't aware of that point. You just said like, oh, you know, the guy had three goals, he took 20 shots. It doesn't matter. It does matter. Right? Like it does matter. Yeah. Yeah. And you're not, you're gonna be on the losing end nine times outta 10 when you got someone playing like that. So Yeah. Yep. That was the difference too. Like for Syracuse when they played Princeton, they were beating guys off the Dodge and they were causing slides to happen and that just was not happening with the TURPs. So impressive. Yeah. So for looking at Tillman here, four to five years, he's been in the finals nine outta 14 seasons. So not counting the 2020 season they've been in the finals. Yeah, it's amazing. It's an absolute machine. He's unreal. It's amazing. So, you know, one of the highlights of the Lake Placid tournament this summer was watching Jay McMahon, I score to John Tillman. No, that was not it. Watching Jay McMahon and John Tillman get into a little, a little fisticuffs, Brian, they were a me pissed off at each other. I knew it was him was, it was see I've got the replay. He cut, I'm bending over for a ground ball. I'm being covered by a different guy. He runs in and like slams into me from behind. I'm like, dude, I jump up and I'm like, what the heck? And I sh I just like shove him off. I had no idea who it was. Once I shoved, I realized it was him, but he didn't know it was me. And we, we know each other and he's coming at me like literally trying to swing at me. I'm like, John, it's Jay McMahon. He's, oh, okay. All right. Sorry. Boy. Nothing I. I forgot. I mean, it was, it was comedy watching these two 55-year-old guys trying God to go out, out there, dude. It was like, that's hilarious how you sit in Mayweather. I mean, just, oh yeah. That's how I would describe it. Alright, fellas. We had a stifling Maryland defense. We had Maryland sort of outrunning Syracuse, and you have the best goalie in the country and the result is Maryland's on to yet another championship game. Let's move to the Cornell Penn State game. Let's do, Jay, let's start with you. What were your big impressions of this one? Well, I've got quite a number of notes here, Ron. Oh yes. In general, we go, here we go. Bk, watch out. It was amazing to see Cornell function basically without CJ Cursed, right? I mean, he had no points. It was the first time he didn't have a point. He 66 games, so four years worth of lacrosse. But they pulled it off. You know, you gotta give Penn State a ton of credit. I mean, they played really well. I thought, you know, when we did our little preview on this game that the Cornell goalie might be a, a liability'cause he was a bit of a liability against Richmond, but he stepped up big time. He had like six saves in the first quarter. That was as many, I think he tied a save number in that compared to that Richmond game. But he finished with nine saves, which was good enough for 50%. Alex Ross, the defense member for Penn State, did a great job on CJ Hurst. But it was great to see all these other guys step up. So that's, that's what I'll start off with. Brian. What do you think? I, I mean, I thought too, when Penn State got in the zone defense, it really stifled Cornell. I mean, yeah. You know, as a, again, I'm watching it from my Maryland goggles and like Maryland, we don't zone, they don't, so I was like, God, if we had a zone, this could be really good.'cause I was not enamored with Cornell Zone offense at that game, but they would've figured it out anyhow. And you know, it says a lot about Cornell when you can win, when your best player doesn't have any points, you know? And I think I go back to the time when Yale won the national championship and their best, I think it was Reeves and I, I had so much respect for Reeves. I, I think it was his, because he didn't score many points in that game and he was totally content with just doing it. And it was the same thing with CJ Kirk. Like, I don't think he cared if he scored a goal or not. All he wanted to do was win. And that just says so much about him and his team and why they're, you know, you know, such a great team voice in the championship in so many ways. Point, I mean, he led the team and caused turnovers for the season and he did have a handful on their ride, you know, cause turnovers in that game against Penn State. So, yeah, it's a great point. They ride great. They're an unbelievable riding team. Best riding team I saw play all year. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, beyond just the CJ cursing, when you flash ahead to how the championship game plays out, you know, the, I mean they got a, they had a lot of depth on that offense, but arguably they're two best players. Kirsten Goldstein combined for one goal. Right. You know, Ryan had one goal. So between, if you, cj, if you go into that game and say Cursed and Goldstein are gonna have one point. You're saying, wow, Penn State's got a hell of a chance to pull off the upset here, which brings you back to, I think Brian, what you were saying, maybe even before we got on air. That's the sign of a championship team, right? When, when you can get that kind of depth and balance and win a semifinal game with, you know, ar arguably your two best offensive players giving you one point, you got a hell of a team, right? KT has over a hundred points and Ryan Goldstein has 90 or 92, and the golds from their faceoff guy, they got a goal and assist from a long pole who's also another Garden City guy. What's his name? Oh, stop, Brendan. Stop. And then their two of their second line mid scored and then Wilhelm scored. And then of course their big guy Kelleher, Adam MacArthur Hugh Kelleher had three goals into the cyst, so he was huge. And then of course, Michael Long played great. Their third attack man, basically. But yeah, I mean that, that once, once that happened, I was like, wow. You know, they, they're, they're legit. They could take on the TURPs. I mean, the TURPs are a powerful team, obviously been there before. And I was like, I don't know if Cornell can, can, you know, stand toe to toe with them. But once they did that, I was like, okay, game on. Yeah. They, they were impressive. Yeah. I think you brought up another thing. You know, I, I, I wondered all along, based on some, having seen some of I. Cornell's defense, and as you said, they're a goalie play, but they give up single digits in both the semi-final and the final. And if there was a weakness on that team I think it was defensively and in the goal. And so you gotta give a lot of credit to that unit that really stepped up. And, and also thinking about Cornell, you know, they're down five four in that semi-final game to a Penn State team that's running, riding a lot of momentum, you know, coming outta the quarterfinals and they're up five four at the half and what does Cornell do? Comes out and just drops the hammer and, and it, and it seems like it's kind of game over after that third quarter, right? Yeah, that third quarter turned out to be a six one run and they just kind of took control. And at the end of the third it was nine seven. I. And they, they made a ten seven. Then you had a nice little run for I guess it was actually probably 9, 9, 6 at the end of the third, because then I remember you get, you get it a little back and forth in the fourth, and next thing you know it's 10 to nine. So Penn State's really coming on and then Hugh Kelleher scores his third to give him that two goal lead. And then eventually, I think they won 12 nine. I mean, you look at Cornell, they. They find different ways to score, you know, they can score six on six. They were not really scoring six on six in the second half. A lot of it was transition or off of a failed clear or, you know, a, a ride back of a hustle play. Right. You know, and, you know, a lot of those things are what makes them so dangerous that I do think going into the championship game, I know that's one of the things that Marilyn was really worried about was how they, how they rode and, and, and what they do really well is they're probably one of the best restart teams you see. Like if there's a, a play on situation, they restart faster than anyone I've seen. And they, they did that in the national championship game as well. Right. And that's usually one of the strengths of Maryland, I would say. Yeah. Is this quick restart. And they did get them on a couple restarts, which was kind of a shocker. Well, gentlemen, it seems like it's time to move on to the championship game, which I did have the pleasure of attending. Brian, I will say that I was, oh, Ron, if I could cut you off. Oh God. Are you gonna share more? One more. Have you not gotten through enough of your notes? Jay? How about a little homage to Tam? Tam Bro's. Been in the finals with Cornell. Yep. With just a heartbreaking loss of Syracuse. Oh my gosh, that was rough. Back in, was that 2009? Somewhere back there. Yeah. And then three semi-finals with Penn State. So, you know, and I feel like he's another coach who's, you know, I mean obviously Maryland's really good, but I feel like Tillman's just getting a lot out of his players. So same thing for Tam bro. And that they are really tough in the playoffs. I mean, they're good regular season, obviously, they're the only team who did beat Cornell during the regular season, but still they had four losses. But I mean, holy cow, in the playoffs, they're just really tough. I mean, so. Good, good for Coach Tam Brown. He's a great coach. Great coach. No doubt. Okay, Ron. Jay, are we ready Now? Move on. I, I agree. That was a nice recognition, well deserved for Coach Tam Brown. Absolutely. And I mean, you know, when we think about the three of us growing up, who the hell was Penn State? Right. I mean, it's, it's another indication of how far the game's common to think, Brian, that that, you know, if you would've told us that Maryland would be in the Big 10 and that, that would be an unbelievable lacrosse conference, we've looked at you like you had eight heads. Right. You know, with Ohio State and Penn State, like Right. Notre Dam even. Yeah. Yeah. Holy cow. True. So it's a tremendous, and then you can say the Big 10 could be the best conference in all of lacrosse this past year. You know? I know. If you think about it. Yeah. And you could have said that a couple times in the last five years. Yeah. Question. Of course, I'm throwing Notre Dame in there. Everyone knows they're a C. But just saying these Midwestern teams, like when we were playing, they, they may have had teams, but we didn't know that. I don't know if they did or not, but we def if we were asked when we were seniors in 91, if they had teams, the answer would've been no, they don't. Yeah, very true. Oh my God, it's amazing. So now we move on to the the championship game and Brian, you, you, I think probably thought about this game a lot more than Jay and I over the 48 hours leading into it, I'm sure. And and so what was your sense going into that game? What did you think Marilyn had to do to win that game? And then how did, how did those things play out? Good question, Ron. That's usually something I would ask, but nice work. It's interesting my son Daniel, he, he's my, I have five boys and they're all very different. And Daniel calls me, we talk all the time, like he's the guy who's always filling me in, like, this is our game plan. It's what we gotta do. Yeah. Yeah. They, yeah. They sit on the broadcast that he's like a coach. Tell me Yeah. Insider info of like, what their concerns were and what, you know, and I, I, I think going in like where Marilyn honestly was really worried about Cornell is and is how they ride. They ride really hard. They felt like they couldn't give him transition. If you give'em transition, it's gonna be tough. And if you watch, I thought Marilyn did a really good job. And then they were very concerned about their restarts and their ultimate goal was not to give them like a failed clear. Goal. And if you look at the fourth quarter, they got two, maybe three failed clear goals, like extra possessions. And if you fail clear you, you know, you stop'em for 60 seconds, then you fail a clear and they get a brand new 60. It's really tough to stop teams twice. And that's what happened towards the end, you know, and so the very thing that they were worried about is what, you know, Cornell did a great job in. And I just felt like, you know I have a nephew on Cornell, so I got all the info from my brother Frank about that from, you know, telling me everything. Going into the game on the Cornell side, as we said before, there's not a team. This guy's not somehow connected to the lacrosse family footprint of Sasquatch. So it was you know, it was a split family thing going there, but it was you know, but you know, I, so that was the main thing for what Marilyn was worried about with Cornell. You know, and again, I think the face offs was, was a concern just because that kid's done so well. But I have to tell you, the two kids from Maryland, they were just amazing all year. Yeah. They always found a way to, to battle. And that has to do with the kids. And I just think it's a lot with the coaching, they, they prepared these kids. So in incred, I don't think there's only one game that maybe we struggled at the X, but all year long these, these kids found a way to wing, win the, the draws and battle with the wing play, but mm-hmm. So that was the main things that Marilyn had concerns going in, that they felt like they really needed to take away and, and do a good job against. Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean,'cause rewatching the game, kind of just sitting back when you know pretty much what's gonna happen, you can really take it in more. And just take note of exactly what you said. It was like, I think it was three failed clears that led directly to goals, and if not, it led to more possessions that eventually led to a goal. And it was like that, you know, it kind of, it felt like to me just sitting there during the game, like, okay, Cornell's kind of got it. My wife went to Cornell, you know? Yeah. He's rooting for Cornell. I, I'm leaning on their side a little bit, like, all right, they're up by a couple. But in the end, you know, when it became a one goal game, it was the difference of getting the ball back on that as they were trying to clear the ball. This is the number one clearing team in the whole country, right? Yeah. And this is Maryland. That was just bizarre. It was 10 to nine, it was their strength, right? It was 10 to nine. And if they, I really felt if Maryland could get it to 10, 10. That you know, and they, you and then they get Cornell starting to white knuckle a little bit like ugh. Hadn't even time. Yeah, you do. You start to in a long time. Yeah. It was anybody's game. You go back prior to the fail clear Spanners had an incredible shot and that goalie made an incredible save and that would've tied to the game. 10. 10. They clear it. Maryland, you know, stops'em. And then we have a failed clear on a ten nine where if we got it, we had an opportunity to get it to 10. 10. Right. And you know, a failed clear, they get the ball, they score, they're up by two. Another failed clear score there, you know, so, you know, just it, that's what happened. And it's so uncharacteristic for Marilyn, but at the end of the day, you have to give Cornell credit. Like the one time Larkin has the ball running up the field on a clear, another opportunity to clear the ball, cursed. At the midline takes the ball away, away outta stick. Like, yeah. And that does not happen to AJ Larkin ever. Like he is ever. And you know, like, it, it again, it, it was, you know, part of it isn't what Marilyn didn't do, it had to do with what Cornell strength did strength for Cornell, right. Was strength versus strength. Right. They're sitting back in that ride and somehow, before you know, it Maryland only has like five or six seconds to clear it. It's like 66 seconds on the clock or whatever. And it was like, so they felt pressured, it seemed like, and so I, well, I don't really wanna clear. Yeah. I don't feel like it was a big, you know, huge mistake so much by Maryland. It was just like great plays just happened to develop for Cornell. I mean, it was definitely a strength for them. That ride. It was crazy. Well, I felt like Cornell won the midline to mid to the restraining line. The restraining line. They were phenomenal between the restraining line and restraining line. Right. They were, they won a lot of those, those ground balls. And then, like you said though, in, in a lot of games that can happen where it did seem like Cornell was really dominating. But what do they have to show for it? They only got a one goal lead. Yeah. In that fourth quarter. It's like all that. And, you know, the game could have been taken from'em.'cause Maryland was just that tough. So it, it was a heck of a game. Guys, have you ever seen, I can't remember a game. At that level of lacrosse where you had more faceoffs that turned into like what seemed like 92nd six guy scrums, just freaking battling. I mean, it was, I know really in the championship games. Yeah. They're like, I don't know if this is the, looks like a bunch of 70 year olds. And the commentator said, or a bunch of 10 year olds. It was like, no, it's just like no one can get that ball. It's just, but it seemed Cornell would always pop up and get it, like it would be a scrum for a while and then all of a sudden one of the Cornell kids would, would get it. And I think the stats are very misleading. You know, it looks like it was even in ground balls and Yeah. Face off Marilyn won Faceoffs and Yep. You know that, but at the end of the day, like Marilyn would win the face off and then the Cornell kid would strip it and get the ball. So, like for me, I always think a faceoff stat shouldn't, you shouldn't count a win until you get into the office. He gets the possession. Right. Who gets, yeah. I don't think if you pick up a ground ball and they give you a win, it, it doesn't matter. It's till you get possession in the box to me, is what they should count as the stat for face off. And Cornell just was disruptive. They were just really disruptive. Yeah. And Brian, that's like, you know, if, if you, if you think about the Maryland teams, like if you're telling me. This game's gonna turn into kind of a tough on the ground, kind of scrumming it up. That's a, that's like a trade of Maryland. Like I think Tillman has his teams play so tough and fundamentally sound, and they're usually, they are a team that's great off the ground, you know, and they're very physical in their, in their approach to that part of the game. So again, back to what you said, this is not something where Maryland is weak or they weren't battling. But you gotta give Cornell credit. I mean, they really did play hard, but then as you said. Man, I would, I I, you could feel when it got to ten nine, the things got tense in a hurry in that stadium.'cause it kind of felt like Cornell was in control. In control. In control. Mm-hmm. And then, and then just as we're talking about those very uncharacteristic, uncharacteristic, uncharacteristic, thank you. Failed clears. Here's another, say two. Yeah, go ahead Ron. I was gonna say another, another, you know, key that I would add. I mean, you know, Logan McEnany was just. Throughout the year. Some, I mean, he could just shut the door on you and he played really well. But if you, if you walk into that game and say the Cornell goalie is gonna have one more saved than him, that's another thing where I gotta give Cornell credit like that. I don't think that was a strength of theirs. And you know, Wyatt really stepped up, I think in those last couple games. And as you said, that Save on Spanos and I, here's another impression. I mean, he looks big on tv. I have not seen them play live until the championship game. Holy. Mm-hmm. Crap. Is he a load man? A lot? Yeah, he's a big boy. Oh yeah. He, he's, oh, and the defense one huge too. Right? He's, he's not fast, but he's got great feet and control and kind of slickness got, he got them hung up a couple times in that two man game. And, and smart. Smart player. Smart player. Yeah. He is a handful. Oh yeah, he is. He, he is. And that shot by Spanish was a very good shot. You know, like, I don't think Marilyn shot very well personally, and they had a couple, like a lot of pipes and things, but and that, but the, the Cornell goalie stepped up, man. He played great. And their defense, which you're right, Ron was, their weakness was, was solid. They played really well and and they played really well in both. Semi-final in, in, in, in, in the final. So they, those guys did an outstanding job. And one thing I'll say too that Ryan Goldstein, I mean they list him at five eight or five nine. I saw him at the final four, I think it was last year. Just like a pre-game thing. I mean, he is five seven, I'm telling you. And he is, I don't know that he is 145 pounds. And he is tough though. I mean, he took an absolute hammer of a hit very next whistle, the balls, he takes the ball on the end line, goes right at Canfield, does a split roll, gets underneath and goes in and scores. And I thought he was going to, I thought he was like knocked outta the game, the play before. So I gotta, I give him a ton of credit. And on top of the fact that he was not recruited anywhere like they thought they were doing. Tim Goldstein, his dad who played when we played naturally was the player of the year. Think in 88 or 89, he, doing him a favor by putting Ryan on the team. And now I'm not so sure you know who got the favor there? Yeah. He's only a sophomore. Got 90 points and the toughness and then he had another complete one-on-one. And I was surprised. One thing, after watching those two games in a row, I watched the Penn State Cornell game and then Cornell, Maryland, the championship. And Penn State really neutralized, cursed by even when they were playing man to man. It was like as if they were playing zone. Yeah. They were really helping. And it seemed like Maryland was determined not to slide.'cause I replayed those times. When Goldstein's going to the gold, no one is even looking at him, they're like face guarding their guys. And then the same thing for cursed. So I mean, you know, tough to, to criticize a coach like Coach Tillman who's probably the most successful guy he's ever coached. But that was one thing I noticed that he, they, they really didn't try to help out that much. What, what do you guys Yeah, I was very going into the game, me personally, I was always worried about the Goldstein matchup, just with the way Marilyn's defense is built. Uhhuh, they don't have that real quick defender besides Shaller and you know, Canfield's an awesome defender, but he's always covering the two. Ander's covering the one and he's like a bigger guy. Yeah. And then the glue guy, believe it or not, is the, the, the guy who's the glue to that defense is Burla, you know, Uhhuh. And he's covering long. So you kind of knew Les was gonna go long, you weren't sure is Shaller gonna go Goldstein or Shaller gonna go curse and you know, you gotta go with shallower on Cursed. And he did a great job in on Curse. And even though Curse had six goals, but they did a good job of getting cursed on other matchups. And he could get underneath, you know, he might have scored on Shaller once, but I think he scored on the other guys watch the time he got under underneath. Yeah. And there wasn't, and then the one on Goldstein, I think that the one that he scored where he, you know, ran at Canfield and, and got underneath pretty quick. I, I, I, I think that was a breakdown off ball from watching it in the stands. Like, I just don't think, you know,'cause there was like, I think there was like 10 seconds left on the clock of, of the shot clock on it, you know? Mm-hmm. And guys are looking to find their guys. I, I, I think that was a, like a, a mistake made by the players. Not that they weren't gonna sell. Yeah. That they might've. Okay. Yeah. That they were thinking, okay, not much in the shot clock. They're gonna go for a feed. He was, he was beat so bad that Well that's, that's what I was gonna say, Brian. He was beat like 10 yards from the goal. That was a Oh boy. Yeah. In fact we were, but after that, Cansfield played a great, he never got beat again, you know what I mean? It was that one time. And you give Goldstein space and you give him that dodge from the corner. There's no one that can is gonna cover him like Right. He's, he's and I, and I would only mention his name'cause he is a great defenseman. I mean, been, it's not like he's beating someone who's not good. So like Yeah, I mean, he's a heck of a defenseman. He, he is unreal. Like, it's amazing on how many good kids in Marilyn's team that aren't all Amer, like he's an all American type defenseman. Mm-hmm. And again, like we all get beat. I'm a defender, you know, you all are gonna have those moments. And you know, if you look at his overall performance of the game, he was outstanding in Canfield. But that was just that one moment where I felt like he was kind of left on an island and mm-hmm. The help wasn't there for him. You know, he did his job, he got beat underneath, you know, he didn't get beat top side and, and there was just no help. Right. What a, and you know, at the end, at the end of the day, Jay, I will, I will take some credit here. You can go back and Oh, and listen to, to me, of course you'll Ron me predicting that Cornell was gonna get to the finals. I did miss the other one, but, but of course you did. I I did, I did think, of course you did. When you, when you look back, back, pick the Hoyas over your TURPs. I did. Brian did, can believe this guy. I did. I did. I did pick that upset. I did, I did not. Anyway not close, but you know, when you, when you, when you look, if you wanna oversimplify this game and you look at teams that have won national championships, the better players, the best players making big plays, and you know, in this game you got Goldstein and curse combining for 10 goals versus one point in the semi-final. So, you know, and, and that snow, as you were just saying, Brian, that there is not a better defense than that Maryland, that, that Maryland defense, right. But you know, on this day, those two players just stepped up and made big time plays, which is what you gotta do to win championships, you know? Yeah. And you gotta give them credit. They did. They did a great job. And look, coach Bernhardt is probably one of the, if not the best defensive coordinator in the game, you know, for Maryland. And he's always got these guys prepared and ready to go. And you know, when you have two. Players like Goldstein and, and, and curse it. It's, it's, that makes things tough. They're, they're, you got two, number one attack men on your team, you know, and Right. You gotta pick your poison. Right. Absolutely. Well, good stuff. It, it was a great game. No doubt about it. And then, you know what I wanted to mention too was the sports center that night, I just DVR'd it. The lead in to the whole, you know, hour of SportsCenter was the national championship game. It was great. They're like, you know, Memorial Day. So it was more Memorial Day night, let's say. And they're like, there's, there are like some one-off great sports moments in baseball, basketball, you know, if it happens. But there's only one sport that dedicates their championship to Memorial Day and that is D one men's lacrosse. And they, that's how they led the show in. And they did like a nice little two, three minutes highlight. It was just great. I was like, look at this. That's awesome. Going prime time. Yeah, it's cool. All right guys, well congratulations to both tho those teams. I mean you know, at the end of the day you usually end up with the two best teams and I think we did right. And it was the first time in maybe 20 years that one versus two met in the finals. And they, I feel like they clearly proved that they were the two best teams. I mean, don't you, they were the two best teams. Yep. No question. No doubt. Well Coach, it was awesome to talk to you and thanks for giving us all this time. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Absolutely. It was great. It was, it was great. Really appreciate it. It really was on many levels. So friends, what a, what a tremendous job coach Kelly has done. Wrapping up. The 2025 college lacrosse season and couldn't have thought of a better way to, to polish things off. So thanks a million, Brian. Thank you. And we will, we'll sign off from there. All right. Take care. Until we meet again. Here's to hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the get the lax scoop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.