S3 E12. 1st Quarter Compilation: Best of Coaches Munro, Tintle, & Heningburg, Part III.

In this episode of 'Get the Lax Scoop,' hosts Big Dog and Jaybird, alongside roving reporter Steve Gresalfi and major skills trainers like Jamie Munro, Nick Tintle, and Jules Heningburg, delve into advanced strategies for skill development in lacrosse. From ecological dynamics to creative training setups, the discussions cover how to optimize touches, the balance between game play and practice, and effective coaching philosophies. They also share personal experiences of setting up training facilities and engaging youth players to cultivate growth. Additional insights include Jamie’s thoughts on the integration of game context in training, Nick’s journey in establishing a premier lacrosse training gym, and Jules' foundation of the LAX lab aimed at comprehensive player development.

00:00 Introduction to Get the Lax Scoop

00:23 Meet the Hosts and Special Guests

01:00 Welcome and Show Overview

01:17 First Quarter 2025 Highlights

02:09 Jamie Munro on Skills Training

03:38 Ecological Dynamics in Lacrosse

09:55 Youth Lacrosse Coaching Insights

16:52 Nick Tintle's Lacrosse Facility Journey

22:45 Introducing Box Lacrosse and Sixes

23:25 Strength and Conditioning with Sweet Oak Fit

24:25 Lacrosse Barn: A Tribute to the Game's Origins

26:21 Training Strategies and Biomechanics

31:39 Jules Heningburg: Individual Growth Mindset

34:51 The LAX Lab: Training the Next Generation

40:53 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

NEW BOOK!
Inside the Recruiting Game: Insights From College Lacrosse Coaches
-Available on Amazon.com as an Ebook and paperback


Links to training videos:
Master The 5 Best Dodges From the Wing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7LDOcQQ6Q&t=88s

Blazing Shots... on the Run!
https://youtu.be/XiptPlM63oQ

Check us out...

On YouTube @jaymcmahonlax23
On Instagram @jaymcmahonlax23
On Facebook @: facebook.com/jmcmahonlax23. Page name: Jay McMahon Lacrosse

Jules Heningburg: https://thelaxlab.com/

Check out!... Coach Tintle's Lacrosse Barn:

https://g.co/kgs/eXedCXf

SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts

Brian Cain Daily Dominator on Apple Podcasts

Lacrosse Charities Mentioned in S2 E36:
https://www.4thefuturefoundation.org/

https://www.harlemlacrosse.org/

https://15forlife.org/

Transcript

0:00

It's time for Get the Lack Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know in the game of lacrosse. We take lack seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join host Big Dog and Jaybird and the biggest names in the game brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training. Ron Doglish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the Sports Foundation. And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All American midfielder at Brown. He was the captain of the U. S. Junior National Team and is the founder of JML. And Joining us in the studio, Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training, helping the next generation of lacrosse players get to the next level. Hello everyone. Welcome back to the show and for those who are new to get the lack scoop, a very warm welcome to you as well. As many of our listeners know, we love our compilations that's because it really hammers home some of the best portions of our previous quarters interviews. And the first quarter of 2025 is no different. We had three of the top skills trainers in the entire country on our show. Jamie Monroe, out of Denver, Colorado. Nick Tinel, out of Dallas, Texas, and Jules Berg out of the great state of New Jersey. The wide breadth of these trainers approach mirrors their wide geographic reach, the reach of the game we all love. The book we released on Amazon inside the recruiting game, insights from Top College coaches has been getting some traction. Thank you to all who have purchased it. If you liked it, please leave a review, and if you haven't read it yet, go check it out as it entails, recruiting and skills training, tips from top college coaches and skills trainers such as Bill Tierney, Joe Brey, and Andy Towers to name a few. We'll start off this compilation with Jamie Monroe, remarks. And let it roll from there. We sure hope you enjoy it and if you do, please subscribe to the show and leave a review. As they say, it don't cost nothing and it sure would help us out. You will find our interview in progress. So Jamie, I wanted to follow up with that conversation about the way your own thinking has evolved around skills and. You know, we got a lot of parents and kids who are in that middle school, high school range, kind of the wheelhouse of kids you've worked with forever to try to develop their games. And so, you know, can you talk about, and I know I've talked with you about, you know, the, the way you think about. For instance, all these tournaments and everything has value, but you go to these tournaments and the number of touches a kid might get in a whole weekend, you know, versus, you know, some of the interactive online training that you're doing and the way. that kid can really develop their skills or that kind of one on one skills training that I know my friend Jay does live with players. So can you talk about what role they each have to play in a player's development, small sided games, which I know you also are a huge proponent of. So talk about what do you tell middle school and high school players to do today who really want to develop their skills? Yeah, the biggest thing you guys is that that I would love parents to sort of really consider is that the the traditional the traditional coaching model is that you will Master techniques and you'll rehearse them and practice them and master them these fundamentals And with the idea that you will be able to deploy them in a game at the right time and that is from And when skill acquisition became a thing in the 1960s, there was an information processing theory, and that's where this comes from which said that we perceive our surroundings, we make a choice, like a Terminator, like you have like all these choices to choose from, pick your skill, you do it, and then you make a decision to do something, and this, this contemporary skill acquisition theory that I, that I referenced a minute ago called ecological dynamics is ecological dynamics. This is like being studied all over the world, not so much on lacrosse, but in, in, in, in, in tons of different ways, not just sports. You can get a PhD in ecological dynamics. Okay. But what it says is we perceive our surroundings and we act instantaneously and we self organize. And so what this means is everything we're doing all this is not just in sports. This is all day long. We perceive our surroundings as human beings. It explains human movement. We perceive our surroundings. And we act instantaneously and we self organize self organized part means it's different every time. It's never the same. There is no one technique. There's no one way to do anything because there's no two situations that occur exactly the same. And it's all about perception. So when you think about the words lacrosse IQ. What does that mean? Lacrosse IQ means a smart player, right? Lacrosse IQ basically is your decision making paired with your skills. So for parents the most important thing that your kids can do is find coaches that are going to do stuff with them that are live One on O's don't make you better because there's no decision making. There's no lacrosse IQ. Does it mean it's a total waste of time to ever work on stick work? No, but you're not actually getting better at the game. And so there's just not enough time to spend a lot of time when you're not actually getting better at the game itself. So just being in a one on one where you get to dodge a defender is going to be light years better than dodging a cone. You show me a technique of a perfect technique, I'll put a defender on that player, that technique will not happen that way. It just doesn't and so it's back to the whole free play thing. It's kind of how we all grew up playing sports And which is kind of what's brought me back to all of this is that the way we grew up playing was just we played and sure Neil referenced that I would do wall ball if I didn't have somebody to play with, but I would automatically go play with somebody you ask about that competitiveness. It probably stems from that. We just played. And so the bottom line for parents is club is a fun experience. You need to play the full field game. You would like to be have some level of fun. Yeah. Of of of a good experience good competition Don't depend on your club to develop you Because because there's just not enough time and and also like you talk about touches You know, you might literally, you know your parents you've seen it count count your son's touches in the game You might get 15 of them in a game but but also not all touches are created equal so you can get thousands of touches on the wall But then there's no decision making so we got to find this balance of context Of offense and defense and decision making in situations that are that are small slices of the game and reps That's why these small sided games are so good. It's why box lacrosse players have gotten so good It's a smaller sided game that has a different constraints that allow these players to learn these smaller situations that translate beautifully to the full field game, so Dive into go to the ecological lacrosse podcast that I've been doing lately if you want to learn more about it start digging into this It's a total game changer, and unfortunately, hardly anybody does it.

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera: 7:49

Yeah, I mean, I, I agree a hundred percent there, Jamie, but, you know, working on your skills so that you can pass, catch, shoot and move your feet effectively is something that every player, you know, must get the reps on before, you know, in between practicing, playing with other players, you know, otherwise, a player simply doesn't have the skills they need to be able to not only compete, but to enjoy competing. Enjoy the game. So when I train players, whether it's in person or online, we go through this method of how they'll approach incorporating what they've learned in one-on-one or small group sessions into team practices and games or, and even free play situations. So it goes like this, like they would have a plan of what they're gonna do, whether it's a move or a cut or what have you, and then they'd evaluate right then and there, you know, and this is for something new that they haven't tried before. But they'd evaluate then and there how they did, and then make any needed adjustments the next time they go at it. So until, you know, I tell them until they get that real experience of how this move, or let's say this release point on a shot is going to work in real time in a real situation, they're not gonna really know how it works. So I think everyone would agree that players need both types of play. And as far as wall ball, I mean, I think every player should use. Wall ball the same way and that, you know, they need to get their technical skills better so that way players aren't showing up at practice, let's say, with a terrible offhand, you know, their non-dominant hand, for example, and that they shouldn't be coming to practice to try to work on catching and throwing with their offhand for the very first time in a team practice. Because, you know, that situation is just kind of like a, a drill kill situation, you know?

9:33

Yeah, and as I said, Jay, I don't think Jamie ever thinks about this stuff, really. He just kind of does shit, and he doesn't really put any thought into it, you know. Self organization, dog. Yeah, I gotta, I'm very self organized. I mean, yeah, is that, I gotta, I gotta rethink everything, Jay. I gotta rethink everything. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. Your perception, Ron. Organize yourself. Let's go. Get with it. Now, Neil, you've been coaching some youth lacrosse yourself in your area out in Sun Valley. Out and with Sun Valley lacrosse, rather out in Idaho, and I saw that you're working with seventh and eighth graders. And I think that is just a great age group where they can really start doing stuff. And if kids are taught the right way and taught to dream big, they can really start really accomplishing some things out on the field. So tell us, you know, what your experience has been like and and what your approach has been with these young guys. Yeah. So last year, my son's a now a ninth grader, but I coached the seven, eight team. And we actually worked with Jamie and jam three to start to put some of his strategies into place and it was an incredible experience. We have such raw athletes out in this valley. You just think about them in the mountain sport environment. I think every kid on our team could probably do a backflip on skis, you know, they wheeling into practice on their mountain bikes, but they just haven't had a really good structure. Or commitment to lacrosse. And so there's a few parents, a guy played at Yale, one who played a little bit at Middlebury, and we've been committed to try to make a difference. And so really trying to make it more part of their every day. So making it part of the culture out here and not just kind of the fourth or fifth sport, we try to make it really fun. Try to make it competitive. I mean, you heard Jamie and I talking about everything was a competition. Kids love it. Boys, girls, young and old. If you play for a competition, they want to win and they'll try harder. We also leave them wanting a little bit more so that they want to come back because it was so good. And so it's been this approach that we started to implement last year. I've been coaching over the last six months, actually all ages and all, both genders to really try to bring lacrosse to this Valley. We have some goals that we've put forth that we want to be the best in the state. It's a small, big state, small lacrosse state. And we're starting to do it and it's been an incredible journey so far. We've seen kids who have never played the game before. Improved dramatically just in a few months through touches in the right situation is Jamie highlighted earlier through putting them in situations where they can use the skills that they've acquired to make decisions and learn how to problem solve. And it's been amazing and it is so much fun. We go three times a week, two times a week, depending on the groups. And it's really starting to become part of this Valley and we have big goals to go further. That's awesome. Now, if you're setting up this kind of smaller sided situation so the kids can get more touches, you know, you're out on a field, you know, we've got a lot of coaches who listen to the podcast and parents and kids. So how would they set that up? Like, tell us the setup basically. Yeah, I mean, depending on what we're trying to do, if you look at, you kind of ground everything at a principle of play, right? So if you want to basically just have something around handling pressure. You could start off by breaking into groups of five and do a three on two, keep away in a constrained box, 10 by 10. So a lot of times teams warm up with just doing line drills and that's great. You're throwing and catching and you're moving, but again, you're no pressure. There's no decision making. If you want to work on moving the ball and handling pressure, if you just do a three on two, keep away in a constrained box size. And you can shrink or grow the box depending on skills. And so you set up five of those with your 25 players. If you intercept like monkey in the middle, you switch it out. And so we just do a lot of little things like that. We'll do, we have four, three and a half or four by four goals. We'll set up games where if we want to have the team move the ball more quickly, we'll put a shot clock on. If we want to make sure that they're just working on certain angles or spacing. We'll only allow the team to use one half of the field. So we're constantly just putting in new constraints. And so, and to the point that Jamie mentioned about self organizing, you don't have to micromanage this. You literally bring the kids together with four goals on the field and say, we're playing three on three. And there's a 12 second shot clock, goalie counts it down, go, and you just start with that. And it's pretty incredible how quickly those kids can get it going, particularly when you keep score, you make it competitive and they love it and you can control it and then you can change as needed. And it's been great. I'm sure Jamie has more to add on that as well, but this, we've been using it. We do calls with Jamie, what, two or three times a week we put practice plans together. We review video it's, and it's just so great to see. And then maybe Jamie can come in on this. Do you put together like an offense for these kids? Let's say, like, how would they get some of that free play action going on in an actual game? How would that translate? Well, all of the small sided games and drills like Neil said, are relative to the principles of the game anyways. And so, Handling pressure. He gave a three on two example. Maybe they'll do a four on four or five on five example where there's double teams And they're not and you have to make six passes to be able to like win the rep so That would simulate exactly how you would be able to handle pressure in a game And so if you think about these little three on two games or three on three games if we were to say, all right Well you guys you guys have to and create offense off of this action, then they would go do that and they would learn how to do it. And then we might be like, Hey, and by the way, the defense, you guys have to, you can't switch. No switch. You have to go over. In fact, you can't switch and you have to go over the pick. And then after a while, they begin to learn the parts and pieces of what offense looks like. And, and there's endless ways that you can create smaller sided situations where they get lots of touches. They're getting the IQ in the skill together. The perception and the action coupled together instead of decoupling them, they're together. And, and then in the end, I mean, we haven't really gotten to the point where they're in season yet, but when it comes to being in season, they're going to be able to do stuff relative to the principles of play. Well, so what is the principle of play of running an offense? It's to, it's to, it's to create an advantage. The whole point is to try to create an advantage, right? So you can score a goal. How do you create advantage off the dodge? Well, we'll teach you how to dodge in lots of different ways by doing. 15 different, different types of one on ones. Maybe an offer approach. Maybe in a post op. Maybe with the defense overplaying you. Whatever it is. Maybe with a pick. We'll figure, another way to do it is off a two man game. Another way to do it is off an off ball two man game. Another way is with ball movement and spacing. And by doing all of these constraints in these, in, in 2 on 2, maybe even 5 on 5, it builds up where the kids know how to play. Then you can do whatever you want. Anything will work. But if they don't know how to play, nothing works. next up is the great Nick Tin. So, yeah, so I, so I was in looking for smaller buildings and I get a call from my now investor in in Dallas. He goes, I got this place. And I didn't, I didn't know who he was. You know, I researched and he played the cross played at a high level, played at the pro level. Has done well for himself, but he he calls me and goes, I got a place you gotta look at. I'm like, I'm sorry, who is this? And then I researched and saw, and I was like, all right, I'll come check it out. Not expect anything. And I walk into this building and when I tell you it, it was a shit hole. It was beyond a shit hole. But it was everything I've dreamt of owning a gym. It was a full field house, a-frame, no poles, wide open space, just right. I was so tired, but I, when I walked in this place, I asked myself when I'm on my deathbed. And look back at this opportunity. And if I said no, I would regret it. And that's why I was like, I'm in 100% in now. I asked him like how he found me or whatever, and you know, he's an investor in a bunch of different things, but he found me through mutual friends that I played with or played against or whatever. And everyone told him that I was the guy to run it because, you know, I ran a brick and mortar, but I also Right. Have a lacrosse background as well. So I basically said yes. Took my wife to Dallas. So did, so did he have this idea for the space? He is like, like, this guy's a great lacrosse trainer. This is a great space. I mean, it's a huge space, right? So, so he, yes. So he moved to Dallas and he just thought that they needed something for lacrosse. Lacrosse is not a sanctioned sport, so they kind of get kicked off to the side. So they, they, they don't get indoor field space often. They don't get this stuff. And I was like, he, he, you know, he was like, we could do football, we could do soccer. He wanted to do everything. I was like. I wanna make this a full lacrosse place. I, I think it's time. And my uncle's been down here, coaching coach at the Woodlands. He's in Austin now, but he, oh, wow. He told me to send the coordinates I sent him, he goes, you couldn't pick a better location. It's right between Highland Park, where Presler ISS at now, right. ESD, you got Hockaday on the girls side. You have St. Mark's, you have a bunch of really, you know, you know, Charlotte North went to ESD. She's 10, it's 10 down down the road. That's awesome. High level players, high level teams, right within, you know, 15 minutes of the gym. So I, I told him, I was like, and he looked at me, he is like, okay, we'll, we'll, we'll try it out. He goes, this is your thing. It's a passion project for him. But it, like, it was kind of a risk on my time to make it just lacrosse and I just thought it was the right time to do it. I might be a little early to it, but I promise you since I've done it, people are starting to talk about putting it everywhere. They wanted, right? Huh? Yeah. So anyway, this type of facility, well, I wouldn't bet against you. Yeah. It was my, it was my dream. It was my dream. I swear I've dreamed, I dreamt of a place.'cause when I was playing for Denver, we used to play in the field house at, Bronco Stadium Broncos. And I looked at it, I was like, man, if I had it, I just, all these years I've been designing this facility in my head and now I have the actual bones to do it and start from scratch and make it my own. And I moved my wife from, from California, she's born, you know, born and raised in California. She moves to Dallas. She, you know, she's another angel that was sent to me. She's everywhere. And I come, I show her this place and like I said, I mean, HVAC system were gone. Wire line, like copper wires stolen, windows broken. It was dusty. Like, I bring her in and I'm like, this is gonna be strength. This is gonna be chiropractor, this is gonna be this, this can be this, this is gonna be field tur, blah, all this stuff. I turn around and can't hear it. A peep. And I like, what's up? She goes. What the fuck did you do? What do you mean? But what do you mean this? It's gonna be beautiful. She goes, do you know how much work you have? And I'm like, I'm like, let's stay in the honeymoon stage a little bit for this. Right? And that, that was the start of the project that took 10 years off my life. Pretty much. I, you know, I, I, I stayed in California. I sold Athlete's Choice. I stayed there for six more months working out of that facility. And then I was gonna move to Dallas and within that year, so I thought it was gonna be a six month, you know, a year project. So six month renovation, a year's worth kind of thing. I started and then six months I'll be there while they're building it out. I got there. I. It took two years to get off the bat. So I didn't have, I didn't really have a job for two years when I got here. Obviously I, I was training and coaching at the field, but I, you know, I was also going, meeting up with the architects and meeting up with the town and, and doing all coding and a DA compliance and, you know, putting security cameras in, you know, entertainment systems. Finding a strength coach to, to team with, to finding our chiropractor and our, and our PT side, and finding coaches that wanna coach there and all this stuff. But, you know, I wouldn't change the world. It, the place came out. It's, it's, it's just unreal. It's, it's, it's a different, it's a different facility. It's a real special place. Yeah. But it looks like a piece of artwork. It is. It's. And yeah, just looking at some of the player testimonials on the site, you know, it's obvious. You absolutely love what you're doing and love these athletes and it, it's made a huge difference, huge impact in so many of their lives. And, you know, in broad strokes, what is your approach? And you could talk a little bit more about the facility too. I know looking at the video online, the number 88 is, is in the, is in the facility. So you could talk about that, but we're just gonna ask a question in broad strokes, you know, what your coding philosophy is like and what are some of your most powerful training principles. But talk a little bit more about the, the layout just so people can kind of get a picture. We'll put the link in the show notes to your website.'cause they gotta check it out. It's just amazing. So it's, it's one building right now. We had two buildings. We had to take down the bubble building that was part of the process of, of the fire compliance. But we're building a second building. It's just in the, it's in the works right now. We finally opened building one phase one, which was the big 70,000 square foot gym. Wow. It has 76 yards of turf long, and then it's about 35 yards wide. It's got two rows of, of seating. So we have like event seating, so we could run sixes in there. We have a box rink that we'll put in two to three months outta the year. That is cool. We want to introduce box to both the girls and the guys. We think it's an antigo part of just becoming an all around player. Yeah. And then with sixes, it just made an easy decision because of the Olympics coming in there. So get, get people situated with sixes and understanding the rules and just, that's great. Like think about basketball, pick up basketball. That's how you get good. Right. So pick up, like pick up lacrosse is sixes, right? Right. So we have mezzanine, every seat in the house is dedicated to my buddy. So 88 is on the every seat of the, of the gym. The bull logo that we have for the lacrosse barn that 88 is in the mesh. So I incorporate that with everything. We have Sweet Oak Fit, which is our strength and conditioning company that we partnered with. They are the best in Dallas. I, I wasn't settling for anything less than the best. We wanted to come out, out the gate running. I found them they've been around for 12 or so years in the Dallas area and their, I guess general manager is from Long Island. He played lacrosse. He trained Brenda O'Neill when he was younger. And he started really, he started really kind of bringing in more lacrosse athletes and strength training with athletes. So one thing that was really important to me is through my strength and condition speed world out in California, I understood and started learning how lacrosse athletes moved and the demand on lacrosse athletes' bodies. So I wanted a strength coach that wasn't giving bastardized football programs to lacrosse athletes. Right. I wanted cross specific training for lacrosse athletes. Yes, they gotta get bigger, stronger, faster, but how do we keep them on the field? Right. Right. On the girls side, it's ACL injury prevention lower back. You know, there's, there's a lot of things that go into the demand of Blue Cross. So we, we hired them strategically When you walk into the lacrosse barn, I wanted you to understand that this is lacrosse first. So when you walk into the left, we have benches that are our benchmark and we have all our kind of core models. And then on the left of the wall, we have a full museum type piece. Of the origins of the game. So think it's a Native American piece with old wooden lacrosse sticks, and it has the history of the game from when it started all the way until the Olympics. That will be coming in 2028. That's so cool to teach, especially in Dallas, not a lot of parents have played the game. So we want to teach them and educate them where the game came from. You know, kind of give it a little bit of an ode of, of how special the game is. And especially with my story, right? We, it's the medicine game and we, we try to incorporate that into our training and everything like that. So everything is lacrosse specific. We partnered with Legends, so they do our apparel. Scott Hoad over there, just, you know, his apparel's, you know, above everything else, so he ized it for us. That's great. We have a ping pong table upstairs. We have a flat screen TV with Xbox. We wanted the experience to be for kids not to come for an hour in training and then leave. We want parents to be like, this is a safe spot. They could shoot, you know, they could train, they could shoot if the bay's open, or they can go upstairs and play some Xbox or ping pong. We have a foosball table, you know, they can hang out. Go, you can go go grocery shopping or go run errands and, and leave'em there and let'em, you know, they'll be fine. They'll, they'll have a good time. We also have two home and away locker rooms that are customized with the, the LB logo and, and bull logo. So when we have the box tournaments or the Sixes Leagues, you'll have a home and away locker room as well. Cool. Man, that is just phenomenal. Beautiful, incredible, unbelievable. I mean, congratulations, man. It, it it seems like the culmination of of a lot of dreams and hard work and overcoming adversity. It just sounds like an amazing place. Looks like an amazing place online too. It is. The other thing that I wanna add to that, and if you guys don't mind,'cause I'll talk all, go right ahead. Go right ahead. Go into our training strategies. The problem or the disconnect is that these little kids weren't born with the talent that you have. They can't just do a skip split. They can't just do a role like you do. They can't, they don't have it. they haven't learned it or they just haven't been naturally blessed with it. They can't pick it up, right. So I became obsessed and I mean obsessed for the last 15 years of breaking down the biomechanics of Blue Cross athletes shooting form, technique, mechanics. Challenging the stigma of like these drills that have been around for but never. You just, you hear it regurgitate all the time, right? I wanted to find ways to teach a 6-year-old that same drill with like, like for instance, like everyone teaches like on the run shooting to backpedal down the alley, right? Every time you teach a young kid to backed down the alley, what do they do? They fade. How do we from fading from day one is we have them learn how to run on a curve. A curve. If you could run on a circle, you're gonna learn naturally how to lean into it and not fade. What they don't know is not how to, how to lean. So it was different. So we, we, I've challenged these ideas and I've found out better ways to teach it to the youngest kids. So they create better habits. At an early age, which allows, and I know there's an old school mentality and a new school mentality. I kind of fit in the middle. I wanna build a strong foundation of fundamental overhand and all that stuff. But if a kid is ready to. Go behind the back and teach'em why and when to do it or, you know, get out of different things and do, like, the game is evolving and changing. So that's heavy into my thing. It's not flashy. Right. Seeing these guys do some crazy things these days, you know, the way I look at it, I, I say this to all the coaches that like challenge me. I go, imagine someone told John Grand Jr to stop shooting behind his back. Right. Wouldn't have John Grant Jr. Right, right. Exactly. Or tell Mac O'Keefe not to shoot underhand. He's got one of the best underhand shots ever. Right. Kids are gonna go to what they feel comfortable with and what they practice most often is what they're gonna be confident with. So why are we taking that away from them? Let them create and then what we should do as coaches is gear them in the situations that they should use that and the situations they should use An overhead shot. Right. Right. Absolutely. That's great. I like that. Given that latitude. And then, and for me, with my speed background, because I was obsessed with speed, so it was, biomechanics of breaking down, like foot strikes, shin angles, head positioning is huge. Weight distri distribution, where your weight should be on your, on your foot when you're dodging, like it should be on the inside foot. Not many people know, but you're landing on the foot and then you're rolling over the big toe, which sets your arch and then eventually sets the Achilles, which is your piston. Right? So that is the thing that makes you fast. But kids don't know how to drive over the big toe. They don't know how to set that arch. So we teach the, those like really detailed things so that that kid that can't naturally do a double jab or like has that shake, we could teach it to him in some capacity. Now, is he gonna be a Kyle Harrison? Is he gonna be a Jordan Wolf? Or, you know, a sos or a Grant? Amen. No, he's probably never gonna get to that athletic, but we can make him faster. We can make him, we can make him better than what he would do if he was never taught those things. So I don't, I don't know if you know, but did you see Jay glowing there when you started mentioning the foot? I'm a former foot and ankle doctor, Nick. Yeah, I mean, when you were talking, you're talking about loading the windless mechanism. I love it. The toe and the arch. I mean, Jay was just like, oh, this guy, the detail, I love it. Yeah, it's a hundred percent spot on. And that's the thing, like, and then we like, so I know my strengths, I know that my strengths are breaking down, that type of stuff. You know, you had Jamie Monroe on, I studied Jamie Monroe stuff because that's not my strength. I wanna be better at that stuff. He's great with the X's and O's, the two man being just, you know the savviness and the IQ stuff, right? So if I can, create and break down Dodgers and get them more athletic, because he's right with the athletes. They'll, they'll figure it out. They'll, they'll be able to adjust. But what about the guys that can't move that way? We gotta teach him how to move that way and then be savvy. So I take things from him. Long time. I think he's a lacrosse savant, like nothing but praise for Jamie Monroe. Yeah. Because he did stuff that I don't comprehend and I'm trying to learn from him as well. But I think there's, I think the missing piece for me is the athletic development through the game of lacrosse. Right. And, and that goes into like, shooting, like, you know deceptive shooting. And then just, you know, rotation and extension and different things like that. So we really try to break that down. So that's, that's huge. That's great. Awesome. Awesome stuff. You can you imagine Nick tangle and and and Jamie and Row in the same room talking lacrosse. Good lord. Good Lord. Forget about it. I love it. Awesome. I mean, it, it, it's so awesome to see, you know, and you and Jamie are very different people and it's funny, a as you were talking, thinking about the different ways you two think about the game that kind of matches your personalities, you know? Yeah. And you each in your own way are thinking in ways that a lot of people don't think about the game of lacrosse. So it's really neat to see the juxtaposition of you two and the ways you approach your work. And now we'll tune into our interview with four time All Star Jules Henning. Well Jules, the other thing I, I. It was interesting. I see a couple of lines where you talked about at Rutgers, right? Needing to understand that even when you are around a team five, six days a week and have that practice, you gotta have that individual growth mindset, right? Because the reality of the, the individual development time. And so it seems like that served you well in the PLL where that's even, I don't know, it's 10 times the reality there, right? I mean, you, you just have so little time around your team that if you're not getting better on your own or you're not just ridiculously talented, it's just not gonna happen. It, it's true. And, and there are a lot of guys, don't get me wrong, and it's not just a PLL, you see this in the NBA. I don't know if you see it in the NFL as much just because of how physically demanding that that sport is. But definitely in the NBA, you got guys that are just, you know, they're on multimillion dollar contracts and, and this guy, you hear stories about this guy doesn't put any work in the gym. You know, he, he kind of just shows up. Maybe he's staying out late and he's a, he's an Allstar, he's a maybe even a all pro player. You know, you hear the stories of the James Hardens and the Paul Georges and like, right, right guys. And like, then you have the LeBron James of the world, or the Steph Currys or you know, guys that you just know are, they're in the gym working on their craft. And that's, that's, that's who they are. Kobe Bryant to the world. Yeah, that's what they do. And I always tell people there's like an axis for that. Like there's, there's talent and there's hard work, and you gotta, you gotta get real with yourself around kind of where you fall on, on this axis. And whatever your, your aspirations are, just be, you have to have some more awareness, some more self-reflection. Hey, if I'm, if I'm this guy is this talented and I'm this talented, well, he does not have to work as hard as I have to work for us to get to the same place. And that's un that's unfair, but that's just the reality. And I think, you know, Ron, to your point with, with kids, that's exacerbated by like social media and just all these things that they're dealing with. When I, I can, I can look at a kid in eighth grade and just say, Hey, look, this is your trajectory. You are this talented right now, and you work this hard. If you work this hard, this is the potential you have. But if you don't do that, there is no X, y, z or you're this talented Right? But you don't work that hard, you better start working harder. Because I like, as you get older, that talent starts to dissipate a little bit. Starts to go down. You're the big eight. People start catching up. Yeah. Like you, well you're, you're kind of slow though. So you don't wanna be the, the big eighth grader, ninth grader that could run through everyone right now. But, but then that, that eighth, ninth grader that hasn't gone through puberty yet, he starts to go through puberty, he puts on that muscle and he's developing everything. And now he's here and you're here. Right. And you didn't develop a work ethic'cause you were just, I'm the biggest, fastest, strongest. And, and now you're not gonna get to where you want to go, which again, it's not for everyone at the end of the day. Which is all good too, right? Yeah. So, I mean, Jules, it seems like you might be the busiest guy in the game of lacrosse. I mean, there, there's very little in the game you're not doing, you founded the LAX lab, you're the founding, you're a founding member of the Black Lacrosse Alliance and Mission Prime. So it's really cool to see the way that you're given back to the game. But, but let's talk about your skills training program and the LAX lab which I know your brother's currently the director of. Tell us how that came to be and how that's evolved and how you and your brother think about training the next generational lacrosse players. Yeah, no, absolutely. I, I appreciate you asking about that. I think when I graduated, it was, it was just the Duke lab, like, Hey, we're gonna work on offensives talent, offensive skill sets, shooting, dodging footwork, that I felt like were in college. Really what elevated my game, like, Hey, I need to get better at attacking my matchup. Or I get these step down shots from the point, and I really need to get better at just like hammering this shot or. I need to get better at turning the corner, like very specific offensive things that, again, in my individual opportunity and to get better, I was working on. And so when I was traveling around the country when I first graduated, and figuring out what, what this lacrosse thing looked like and, and what it would mean to be a full-time player in 2018.'cause we were only getting paid$6,000 at that time. A full-time player meant you had to find sponsorships, you had to do camps and clinics, you had to do things to make it happen. Yeah. That would make you more relevant in the game and like allow you to build a profile and you know, do something outside of just playing because playing wasn't enough. And so it started with the Juke lab and it was kind of like funny, like at the, at first when I would say it to guys, I'd be like, yeah, I started this thing called Juke Lab and then I would just take videos of the stuff we were doing and, and I realized, I was like, it's kind of catching on, but like, no one's really like focusing on footwork or like offensive development and like putting it on social media and like talking about it in, in a. Strategic way. And so I kind of just started to do that. And then I realized like, fast forward now a lot of people do it. And so it's cool. Like I'm glad that it's, it's grown. But what I also realized is I was kind of pigeonholing myself a little bit where that was good for me running around the country, but like I would go to places where, hey, you know, you guys do not need footwork, you need stick work. You need to understand this stuff. Right? Or mentally, yeah, before we start talking about your feet or this shot or that. And so I wanted to give myself the opportunity to expand, right? So that's where lax lab kind of came in. I kept a lab, like that was a, a running joke, like when we were growing up with my brothers too. We would just be like, yo, we gotta get in the lab. Like, yo, you've been in the lab, like you've been working, like when's the last, I went to the field three times this week. Like, when's the last time you hit the field? So it was kind of always this thing and I was like, why don't I just use that and, and run with it? And it's a family business now too, which is cool. And kind of how we all came up in the game. And I think the LAX lab was really, when I got to New Jersey, I realized we were doing the skills training, we're doing juke lab stuff, but the kids in New Jersey, they're, you know, not everyone has the rec experience that I had with dads that played and have the, just were instilled in them the work ethic and the, the history of the game and the determination and kind of just, I, I would say like the spark that I had. And I think that that's the, the thing we give to these guys the most is, yeah, sure we train some talented players, but like my favorite player in the world to train is a kid that like, doesn't know how good he can be and isn't otherwise getting that spark instilled in him, whether it's because he is not playing other, I played other sports. I played basketball like my basketball coach. That's the greatest athletic experience I've had to date is my middle school basketball coach. I'm actually gonna talk to. 10 year, no, not 10 years, I guess. 14, 15 year reunion. We won three championships, sixth, seventh, eighth grade, and middle school basketball. Wow. Never done that in the history of the program, even to this day. And we had a ton of great athletes on that team, guys that played D one, D two, D three in a variety of different sports, including basketball. And he was, we were 11 and 12, and it was no joke. It was, you know, we're, it was the most serious thing in the world. And I was, I was like, all right, like the, I, I'm, I'm locked in. Like this is the most serious thing for me. I was very impressionable and I had positive influences that made impressions on me. And so when I see kids, I can tell that I'm like, yo, you're just not getting that. And the lacrosse is one aspect to it, but like, I need to spark something in you. And we can use lacrosse as the avenue, but it's more just building belief and confidence in someone who is. At a crucial point in their life, like 12, 13, where they're, they're going through puberty. They're seeing social media now, which is crazy. They're, they're having all these things happen. I'm like, no, dude. Like, yo, put in work, see the results, and then like, now that's a blueprint for you. You did the work, you saw it worked. Let's keep at this, let's keep building. And then you watch it for a year and two years. And we have kids that have no business being good at lacrosse, who are now just like, good. And they're feeling themselves. I'm like, yes, that's good. Like, and that's, that's my favorite kind of kid in the world. And that's really what the LAX lab is all about is, is like we genuinely care about your kid. We know he plays club, a lot of them. Most kids play club. The club coaches don't have enough time. They, they have to worry about the tournaments through recruiting all these things. We're gonna just focus on you as a person and a player and train you and then go out to your club team and, and go perform. Like go be. You go bring that, that belief that you built working on your own, not just with us, but. Now I'm telling you, it's not just with me. You need to do it in the backyard. Go bring that to your rec program, your high school program, your club program. And we believe over time we're gonna be able to transform young men's and women's lives through that. Jules. You know what the game is in awesome hands, man. It's really, really fun to see someone who cares as much about all the different dimensions. First of all, just what it is to be a good person. But the way from, from the way you think about skills development to the way you think about the growth and diversity of the game. To the way you're just thinking about helping young people develop the kind of mindsets that are gonna help'em be the best they can be. I mean, you you got it going on, man. Great. That's great. That's awesome. I appreciate that. That means a lot coming from you guys and I, I'm thankful that you, you know, you reached out and, and wanted me to have you on your podcast, so thank you guys so much. Well, thanks a million and we'll sign off here Until we meet again. Here's to hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the get the lax scoop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.