S3 E11. 1st Quarter Compilation: Best of Coaches Munro, Tintle, & Heningburg, Part II.

In this episode of 'Get the Lax Scoop,' hosts Big Dog and Jaybird dive into the world of lacrosse, discussing the personal journeys and professional insights of some of the game’s most influential figures. Sponsored by Jay McMahon Lacrosse (JML), the episode features compelling interviews with Jamie Munro, Nick Tintle, and Jules Heningburg. Jamie Munro reflects on his coaching career, from Yale to building a successful program at Denver, along with his impactful recruiting techniques. Nick Tintle shares, after not playing competitive lacrosse for 6 years, his inspirational comeback story of achieving his dream of not only playing professional lacrosse but winning an MLL championship at the age of 32. Jules Heningburg discusses his development as a player and his approach to coaching, emphasizing personal growth and skill development. The episode is filled with motivational tales, strategic insights, and a deep love for the game that will resonate with players and fans alike.

00:00 Introduction to Get the Lax Scoop

00:23 Meet the Hosts and Special Guests

00:59 Welcome and Compilation Overview

01:41 Interview with Jamie Munro

02:09 Neil's Journey and Playing Style

06:27 Jamie's Coaching Career

15:10 Nick T's Lacrosse Journey

24:27 Overcoming Injury: The Hamstring Strain

25:04 The Wrist Injury: A Setback Before Playoffs

26:34 The Emotional Toll of Watching from the Sidelines

27:16 A Roller Coaster Season: 2018

29:42 The Championship Victory and Its Significance

31:51 Reflecting on the Journey and Future Aspirations

32:30 Jules Heningburg's College Lacrosse Journey

43:26 The Importance of Personal Development in Lacrosse

44:22 The Role of Coaching in Player Development

46:16 Final Thoughts and Farewell

NEW BOOK!
Inside the Recruiting Game: Insights From College Lacrosse Coaches
-Available on Amazon.com as an Ebook and paperback


Links to training videos:
Master The 5 Best Dodges From the Wing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7LDOcQQ6Q&t=88s

Blazing Shots... on the Run!
https://youtu.be/XiptPlM63oQ

Check us out...

On YouTube @jaymcmahonlax23
On Instagram @jaymcmahonlax23
On Facebook @: facebook.com/jmcmahonlax23. Page name: Jay McMahon Lacrosse

Jules Heningburg: https://thelaxlab.com/

Check out!... Coach Tintle's Lacrosse Barn:

https://g.co/kgs/eXedCXf

SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts

Brian Cain Daily Dominator on Apple Podcasts

Lacrosse Charities Mentioned in S2 E36:
https://www.4thefuturefoundation.org/

https://www.harlemlacrosse.org/

https://15forlife.org/

Transcript

0:00

It's time for Get the Lack Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know in the game of lacrosse. We take lack seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join host Big Dog and Jaybird and the biggest names in the game brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training. Ron Doglish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the Sports Foundation. And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All American midfielder at Brown. He was the captain of the U. S. Junior National Team and is the founder of JML. And Joining us in the studio, Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training, helping the next generation of lacrosse players get to the next level. Hello everyone. Welcome back to the show and for those who are new to get the lack scoop, a very warm welcome to you as well. As many of our listeners know, we love our compilations that's because it really hammers home some of the best portions of our previous quarters interviews. And the first quarter of 2025 is no different. We had three of the top skills trainers in the entire country on our show. Jamie Monroe, out of Denver, Colorado. Nick Tinel, out of Dallas, Texas, and Jules Berg out of the great state of New Jersey. The wide breadth of these trainers approach mirrors their wide geographic reach, the reach of the game we all love. We'll start off this compilation with Jamie Monroe, brother Neil's remarks. And let it roll from there. We sure hope you enjoy it and if you do, please subscribe to the show and leave a review. As they say, it don't cost nothing and it sure would help us out. You will find our interview in progress. All right, Neil, enough, Jamie, Neil, enough, Jamie, let's get, let's, let's get to you. All right. As I mentioned, I, you know, one of the fun things about this podcast is like, you know, you know, guys forever, you play with them, but it's not like you're really asked these kinds of questions. So, you know, thinking back of like you being that we talked about you being, you know, a team defensive and offensive MVP, how, how did you become that player? You know, not every attack man grows up wanting to ride their ass off and pick up crazy, every loose ball in the offensive end. But you know, those of us who know the game know if you give, especially the of offenses, you played with a few extra possessions, a game, you're gonna win a lot of games that come from those plays. So anyway, I'm just wondering, like, how did you become that kind of player that really distinguished your style, the way you played? Yeah, I think it happened freshman year in my first game, a couple of us at the end of the bench were joking that I could have probably still had my jeans on under my sweats because Dom didn't even look my way. And when you looked at the attackman that we had, you know, towers in the middies with low and obviously the other way around and UJ, I realized that I had to find a way to make a mark. And. I don't know if you guys remember, but I started getting some opportunities on the wings of the face off and I picked up a couple of GBs there and I started getting a little bit more time. And as I started getting a few more and scrapping and hustling, I started getting a couple of midday shifts. And so when I became a sophomore and it was me, Andy and Darren, two future Ivy league players of the year and first team, all Americans and nothing against those guys, but if it's not, you know, in their advantage on that GB, they're not really going for it. You know, 60, 40 for the other guy. Yeah. We'll chase that one down later. Right. So I had to figure out my niche. Right. And then when Andy moved to midfield. And I get Oliver, I'm not picking on Oliver either, but I got a better shot of getting that ball than him. So it was a little bit knowing my personnel and then Jay, I'm going to pick on you because you guys got pretty used to having me get in the hole. I remember many times seeing you go, Neil. You got this. Get back there. And so it's just, it was this self perpetuating thing, but I just started to love it. You know, you look at these Virginia teams that Lars has. They ride the shit out of the ball. And I was kind of like that early guy who was just like, I am going to go a hundred and 10 from when the ball's down until either I have to get back in the hole for Jay or Andy, or until they have it on the other side. So the only thing I think about is why Dom at that point, wasn't like this shy should be a D midi or an LSM. I don't know why he kept me on attack. That's probably the question really. That we got to kind of figure it out. It was working. You had plenty of goals, plenty of assists. No doubt. But it was, I loved it, man. We had the best time playing down there and, and scrapping that hard to get an extra. I mean, you put the ball in Darren stick one more time. You probably get another shot yourself. You know, it's, it's all worth it. There's definitely some rewards for the effort. I was going to say, Neil, I mean you know, What you're talking about to me and knowing that team is the importance of understanding how you can fill a role and make a huge contribution. Cause if I was answering that last question, I'd probably say, because you became a hell of a finisher, you know, as, as you're mentioning, there's a lot of guys on that offense who are going to draw attention, but you fricking play. And I remember a lot of times, you know, you're on the end of some of those multiple slide sequences. And you got to finish, you know, and so you, you became an engine of both starting the offense, I think with your riding and your ground balls. And then obviously you were on the, you were on the receiving end of a lot of those, you know, assists. So, yeah, no, you know, and I actually attribute a lot to hoops. He would always be like one. Get over here. He's like, you got to start contributing a little bit more, right? 20 points for an attackman is not enough. Here's what I want you to do, right? You would be like just getting in my ear, but in such a, you know, authentic hoops way where it was more of just like, you're going to be better and I'm just helping you get there. He wasn't putting you down or anything. It was really incredible. Right. That's great. Now, Jamie, as we were reviewing in the opening, you were an assistant there at Yale and your success in that position for nine years then led to you becoming the first head coach out there at Denver in the summer of 98. So tell us what that experience was like, you know, taking this club program then, you know, eventually to a playoff team, multiple times hitting the NCAA tournament. So tell us what that was like. It was really exciting. I really wanted to be a division one coach and it was at the time there was not as many programs and it was very it was very hard to become a division. And I really only got the job because everybody else turned it down. So I was pretty happy about that. And you know, it was actually division two. But it was like a club. I mean, there was, there was very few resources. Our, our office was like, there was Tier A sports and Tier B sports. And we were a Tier B sport. And the Tier B sports were like, in this like old dining hall. It was like a ghost dining hall. And I shared with my, with my assistant at the time, but I didn't care at all. All I really wanted to do was just build a program and it was an amazing opportunity. And I, Just recruited as if I was, you know, going to be winning national championships and just and it was just an amazing learning experience. I mean, it's kind of crazy. It's like being, it's like being a first time parent, though, you know, you're just like crazy about about everything and in a good way and in a great learning way. So. It really, I've always been kind of a student of the game. I learned a lot when I was at Yale. Mike Waldvogel was an incredible mentor for me and I learned a ton. And so I was able to sort of continue the learning process. But now as a head coach, you're like, you got to deal with literally everything from recruiting. I mean, our budget was so small. It was how small we talk. I had to fundraise. I mean, I probably fundraised 10 million in 11 years. Including like scholarships, including like literally everything because we just weren't getting handed it, but we, but the more we started to have some success and the more we were able to get people to chip in financially, you know, it just helped us build the whole program. And so I really got into recruiting Canadians, which was an interesting thing. So, cause I just started realizing that, you know, I wasn't going to be able to compete with the, with the Virginians of the world. Those levels of recruits, but I could get these junior a players and it really turned me on. I'd played a little bit of box across. You'd mentioned that, but it was hard to do with coaching, but I didn't know the value of it as a player. And then when I started recruiting it, I just was kind of blown away. So now were those guys like in college, the junior guys? So they're like with the junior a players already in college because I know they come in a little older right when they come to it back then because recruiting in general was older. These Canadians were older. The best kids in junior a were 21. So, I mean, I had like Jeff Snyder was like a 22 year old freshman. Wow. And I had a, I had a lot of those guys, so, so they hadn't gone to college before, although, say what? So they hadn't gone to college before? They were playing Junior a, yeah. Yeah. A lot of'em were hockey guys or they were just like, you know, they working at, you know, Tommy Tomato, Tommy Tomato, or whatever. I mean, just like waiting tables. I mean, they were just gonna be firemen or whatever. Oh, I gotcha. Jeff Snyder, but you know, that's where I recruited Brownie and I kind of got, you know, Matt Brown was actually, I got an email from Matt Brown. That was on one of your questions, Matt Brown is the current head coach at Denver now. And I got an email from this guy and it was in the early days of email, to be honest with you, it was like maybe one of the first emails I ever opened. I mean, it was like a thousand or something like that. And he was like, yeah, I'm from Burnaby, British Columbia. I'm a 17 year old. I led the, I led the BCLA in hat tricks this year and, you know, and I started looking it up and I was like, wow, this kid looks like he could be pretty good. And I went up, did a home visit, actually got a ski day in at Whistler as well. Yeah, that was pretty little benefit. But and and then I got a pipeline into into Burnaby, British Columbia. And that was like, at the time they were the best program in British Columbia. They won a lot of mental cups. It was just the junior national championship. And we had a bunch of kids to come through from, from Burnaby. And so, yeah, it was, it was obviously an amazing experience and we. We built a good program. That's cool. And then was Hilgey your first assistant? Yeah. Peter, the guy, the guy who was at McDonough is at McDonough. Peter Hilgar was his youngest brother played at Maryland. It was my assistant for the first three years. I got you. Oh yeah. You know, you, you mentioned Matt Brown, Jamie, and I think one of the, the other, like things that, that to me. You can tell a great coach when he's hired great assistants. It's like the coaching tree thing. So obviously right now you got Matt Brown. He just mentioned recruiting, you know, as the head coach out at Denver now. And I think Matt went on to be on your staff as well. And then you got John Torpy who were obviously all very interested in the new, new coach at Brown, who I think was also on your staff. So. Talk about those two guys and how, you know, how rewarding it's been to see them become head coaches and maybe particularly coach Torpy, you know, and and what you think of him taking over your alma mater. I love it. Torp and I worked together for five years. So he was 2005 through, which was Brownie's senior year, through 2009. John Torpey is an incredible guy. But you'll, you'll never meet a more personable person in your life. He's like, he, he can relate to anybody. He's absolutely hysterical, but he's also maybe the most driven, hardworking, and not just hardworking. There's a lot of people that work hard. This dude, this guy is so productive. It's insane how much this guy gets done. I'm telling you like he'll get more done before 10 a. m. on a Monday morning than most people get done in a week and I'm not even exactly he is incredible, like I said with his relationships with people. He's got a really good He's got an edge to him, but he's got a he's he can do it in a way That you still love him So like he can be hard on you without like, you know Basically being an asshole and it's like it's really it's it's a real talent honestly. And and he just He goes through his life with this sort of groundedness of family and faith and his love for the game and his love to learn and to not leave and, you know, and to be as resourceful as, as humanly possible to try to win. But also he really cares about people. So I think what you'll find is that what he's going to do for Brown is create an amazing culture. He will bring the program back. To where we want it to be as problems here on this call. And yeah, it was just an amazing experience. It was great to work with him. Hey, Jamie, I'm going to chime in. Cause he's also a complete animal for Jamie's 40th while he was at Denver. He wanted to run a 50 K. So the two of us signed up and torps is like, I'm in the corpse. He couldn't train. He had to train on an elliptical for a 31 mile race. So we all code my starting line. Not only does he beat us by an hour, but he goes an extra 5K.'cause he took the wrong turn. serious, not elliptical. He, he took the wrong turn because he actually, we, I was like, oh shoot, I got, I gotta rock on my shoe right at the beginning of the race. I'm like, I, I really need to take it out for a second. He is like, dude, I can't stop. I'm gonna like, my, my, my calf's gonna, you know, get, get stiff or something. And then he decides to try to win the race. He actually went up with the leaders and was like flying through like, he went through the first aid station and just shoved like potato chips in his face and just kept running through the entire thing because we lost them in every aid station we went to his name was like not on it was on the first one and then after that we never saw him again and we were like, because he tried to win the race and he was like right behind the leaders and then the leaders all of a sudden stopped in the middle of the woods and were like, yeah, I think we went the wrong way. Basically. He's like, wait, what? They went three miles out of the way, three miles back. And then he somehow caught up to us. Oh my God. I was going to say, he told a story. He played basketball with Jamie somewhere. Like he's like, you know, Jamie's like, Hey, you want to play some pickup basketball? It's like, next thing you know, it's 99 to 99. We're playing by one. We're both like, we're not giving up. And. Did that really happen, Jamie? We used to regularly play full court one on one, twos and threes to a hundred, win by four. Win by four. By four. It goes too fast. Yes, yeah, of course, Jamie, of course. The game to 500. next up is the great Nick Tin. Tend to tell people, you know, like we call it the medicine game and yeah, I never really paid attention to that or understood that, but I 100% believe that it was the perfect antidote for me at that time. Right. It got me back, it got a stick back in my hand. I was making$10 an hour. I was eating subway for lunch and dinner. So I was by, at the time it was$5 foot longs I was close to be. So I would order a$5 foot long and cut it in half, you know, have half for lunch and half for dinner. Barely have enough gas in my car to get to and from work. But I loved what I was doing. I was coaching kids, I was teaching'em speed, teach'em strength, and then doing the lacrosse on the side and building the lacrosse thing. And then I start, you know, start getting these kids really good at lacrosse. And I'm, I'm starting to gain momentum and then I go to a couple games and watch. And then I started, you know, I was coaching a club team. I was coaching high school, and then I'm like on the sideline and I'm like getting more nervous than the kids are. And I'm like, those butterflies are like, I want to, I wanna compete again. I wanna play again. And that kind of led me back to my, my journey back to the professional ranks. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that you're cueing us right into the next question. This is beautiful'cause that, that was the question where we can see in your resume where, you know, you took a break from lacrosse you didn't play competitively yourself for a number of years and wasn't sure how many, but I'm sure you can tell us exactly six or eight. But then there you are playing for the Denver Outlaws and and then I knew, you know, just from looking into some of these other interviews that you had this kind of burning desire'cause you hadn't won that championship. So, so tell us that whole story, like why you wanted to get into it and then those first couple years and then you finally hit pay dirt, you know, in 2018. So, yeah, I, I mean it all came back from coaching. So I'm watching the kids play and I'm just getting a burn desire to play again. So I I was like, you know what, I'm at a gym. I'm working out, I'm in great, great shape. Yeah, I haven't, you know, I didn't play competitively for six years. You know, the stick was in my hand a little bit for, you know, so four years, didn't touch a stick. The next two years I had a stick in my hand, but I was just coaching or a year. And then I was like, you know what, why not? Why not just go try out? So 2014, I tried out for the Chesapeake Bay Hawks okay. Not having any, at that time, my goal was just to step on an MLL field, just to step on a professional field and play. Right? So just get on a roster, play in a game, and that's it. I wanted to play in one game. I didn't even have to play a season like that was just the, the simple goal. Mm-hmm. So I worked my ass off. I went to Chesapeake Bay Hawks at that time they had Matt Abbott and then Reynolds, who just played for the USA team as D Mids. And I knew that I was gonna be a d Middy at this point because, you know, the offensive stuff. You know, I, I don't, I didn't see myself competing. I was a little rusty and stuff like that, but I knew I could play defensive transition score if I had to. So I, I went out for defensive million and I knew who was ahead of me, so I didn't have high expectations, but I was gonna give it my best shot. I made it to the last round of tryouts there. Coach Coddle calls me. He was with the s he calls me, he goes, we're gonna find you as spot on this team. He had a great tryout, all this stuff. So I made it the last round. I got cut the last round. But it, it, it was, it hard? Yeah, it was hard, but I was like, you know what? I, I just proved myself after not playing for six years competitively. I'm playing with some of the best guys in the world. I'm like, that's a pretty, that's a pretty good indication that you can make it if you want. Keep pursuing this. Right. I went back, I went back to work and I, I didn't think about it. But they had this LXM Pro League. In California with the Xander Ritz and Max Ritz and Kyle Harrison was in Peter Baum. Oh yeah. Some high level players, but it was more of like a globe trotter style thing. It wasn't like a red eye in a red eye out. It was, you know, we went to pretty cool air. Like we went to Utah, we played in California. We played at like really cool venues. And it just got me back into the swing of things like get, just like, get the rust off and play high level lacrosse. But it wasn't serious and it was just super fun. Right. It just, it, it made me fall in love with the sport again. At that time, it wasn't about winning championships, it was just about being back in that. Locker room with the guys and playing at a high level and having fun with it. I just wanted to find my desire for it again. And that's what kind of Alex Mpro did. So I was like, you know what? I made it this far, you know, I'm in good shape. Let me, let me go try out for another team. So the closest team to California is Denver Outlaws. So they have, every year they have an open tryout for anyone and everyone. There was some 50 year olds out there checking off bucket lists, you know, things, right. There was some high level like kids right outta college that just wanted to, you know, didn't get drafted but wanted to play. Right? So it was a mix of talent. 103 guys. BJ O'Hara, John Cohen and Tony Seman are in the middle. They bring us in. All the other guys not like, not stretching. I'm stretching like a madman'cause I'm getting older. So we, we stand around, there's 103 guys and literally BJ O'Hara goes, we're gonna be honest with you, we're taking one or two guys to camp and that's it. So I look around, I'm like, I gotta a little hill to tie. Wow. But here's where I separate myself. It's like, this is where I knew my role was gonna be. I knew who was on that Denvers team. I knew the mids, I knew who I had to go against. Mm-hmm. What was the d mids looking like? So they separate I goal here, defense here, mids there, defensive mids over here. Me and four other guys, three other guys go to the d MIDI section. Now I know, all right, I'm competing against this. And hopefully they, they need, you know, some depth at the D MIDI position. So anyway, I, I show my athleticism, my ball out. I do really, really well. They take me and one other guy that played at Delaware and play EmPro Pro on the. And and I, that's crazy. Well, at camp, I actually, I'm playing and I'm kind of like, you know, I'm the older guy at camp, one of the older guys on the team. And how old were you at this point? 30. Right. So you're coming in, you're, you'd be like a rookie, basically 30-year-old league, right? Right. At 30. That's, that's amazing. So I, I'm playing against Drew Schneider and he crosses me up and I, like, I didn't wanna hurt anyone. I, like, I, I was still like the low man on the to pole, so I didn't wanna, like, I wanted to be a part of the team when I wasn't even on the team yet, right? Mm-hmm. So Coach Seaman, channel. You're allowed to crosscheck in this fucking league. Will you crosscheck this? So the next time I go out, I wrap my stick around Drew Schneider. I'm like, I'm apologizing to him, but I broke my stick across his back. He flew the ball, comes out, I make a good play, whatever. And, and Tony, soon wass, like, that's all we're talking about. I'm like, I ended up making the squad, I ended up making the team. I had a great tryout. I play in, and again, this is my, my, so I, I've reached my goal. I'm gonna play in an MLO game. Mm-hmm. That first game I have to cover Jimmy Bidder as an, at, like, it's short stick on a, an attack man. Great. You won't see man. Right. But, but first grade assignment for my first game in pro. So I'm, I'm nervous now. I gotta guard an attack man. I did pretty well. We won our first game. It was an awesome experience to walk out on in, you know, Denver Bronco Stadium. It was like, you're playing in an FL stadium and you know, that was cool. A year old rookie. I didn't play for six years, whatever it may be. And it was a cool comeback story. And then. And then, then you're, then you're a part of the team and you're like, all right, we wanna win. Yeah. We ended up losing the next two or three games, and then I find myself not, they didn't travel me, so they call me like, Hey, we're gonna leave you off the roster. We're gonna travel some other guys and try some other guys and try to switch this thing around. Now you guys all know MLL like would go into like college season, and then they would, they would, they would get college kids after they graduated. So they brought in Matt Kavanaugh and Jack Kelly and Goal, and they brought in a couple other pieces brown team that year that had a good run. And all of a sudden I'm watching from home and they're turning the season around and they're, you know, everybody in the league is. Eight and eight or you know, nine and seven. Everyone's like close. So like it comes down to like the last game and they were so bad, but they fought the, so they get the fourth seat going into playoffs and I'm watching at home and they win their first playoff game. And then they are playing in I think it was Kennesaw State. They were playing Ohio machine. And Scotty Rogers is in gold for Ohio. And Steve Walden also I played high school with, is playing for Ohio machine. So I'm watching the game and they're killing the outlaw. They're up by like 11 goals at halftime, but then they have a rain delay. And the rain delay was like a two, two and a half hour rain delay. Denver comes back out and claws the way back in and wins the game. Holy cow. So, wow. I'm sitting there at home being like, I was a part of a team that just won a championship. Now I'm like never wanted, never won in high school. I've never won in college. I've never wanted to pro. It's like the only thing missing is my rent. So I, I was like, after I got like, you know, I was done, I got cut, I was like, know what? I did it, I made it back to the pro level. I'm good. Like how many, right? How many people could say as a 30-year-old rookie, they made a, a pro team? Like, that's not, it's not a real, it's not, doesn't happen often, right. So, yeah, for sure. But the problem is, is that now I don't have a ring and I just saw my team win. So now I have a different obsession. Oh, I still haven't done that. So that goes on my mirror in my bathroom win MLL title or win a a pro title. So I got back to work. I didn't know if the outlaw staff was gonna call me back. I didn't know if I was in their future plans, but they had different plans for me. They thought they, you know, they got my feet wet year one. And they invited me back to camp and I pull my hamstring in Camp Tony Seaman. I, I thought it was over. I thought it was done. And Tony Seaman comes in the locker room and goes, you gonna, you, you gonna be all right by Saturday? I was like, in a week, like, the only thing I can say without losing my job is yes, I'll be ready. So I was like, yeah, I'll be ready. Now I own the gym at this time. So I have my chiropractor, so he works on me two hours, three hours a day to get me, geez, practice some sort of percentage so I could at least run a little bit. And I play in the first game and then play in the second game, third game. And you know, my hamstring starts to heal a little bit each time I play in the full season. Where the best team in the MLL we're number one seed. We already are in playoffs. It's coming down to the last game against Rochester Rattlers. So this is 2017. It's my second year in the league. We playing Rochester Rattlers and there's a ground ball scrum and I get pushing behind. I land on my wrist, I roll over my wrist and I palm my elbows, snapping my wrist in half. Oh man. I come off to the sideline and I tell the trainer, I'm like, I snapped my wrist in half. And he's like, he looked at it, he goes, seems all right to me. I'm like, okay it up. Play the rest of the game. Play the rest of the game. I knew it was bad. We were in Rochester, we flew back. And it was right a balloon probably with the atmospheric pressure change in the, in the airplane. Totally. I, I knew it was broken the whole time. So anyway, I go to see Dr. Ol, who's our surgeon. And he looks at it, he goes, yeah, he definitely broke it. He goes, let's look at it. I tore every ligament in my wrist. So you know, this is right before playoffs. Now I'm, I'm obsessed with winter ring. We're the number one seed. We had the best team ever, best doctor I've ever been a part of. I'm right there. And now I'm, so they sit me down and I pleaded my case. I go, I, I told him, I was like, I will do anything to plan. I, I was crying on the phone with Coach Seaman. He could tell you I was begging. I was like, I'll sign a release waiver that, you know, you guys are not liable for me, you know, doing any more damage. I'll sign whatever you want. They finally just, you know, talked to me, talked some sense, and me like, you could lose the use of your hand and in your profession, that's not gonna be good. So mm-hmm. We sat down and then you know, we, I, I went to the first game. They flew me out to the first game. We played Rochester again. We beat them. We, we go play Ohio machine in a rematch in 2017 at the Star in Dallas. Oh wow. And I'm sitting on the sideline and I can't tell you how hard that was to sit on the sideline. Yeah. Watch your watching that catch your game when all you want to do is be a part of something like that. Right. Probably the hard, one of the hardest things, you know, besides the other things I shared, that was the second hardest thing in my life at that point. Mm-hmm. And I watch'em lose, we lose by two or three goals or something. It was a close game, but we lost, we go in the locker room, there's some, there's some older guys, Matt Bley and guys like that, that are thinking about hanging up the cleats and. Moving on. And I, I'm, I'm pleading, I'm like, one more year. One more year, guys. Let's, let's run it back one more year. We gotta get, like, you know, they just lost the game. They're not in that mode to listen to me asking because I didn't play. But guys came back, I came back for one more year, 2018. Now I'm 32 years old. We're struggling all year. We're up and down. We're in the mix, but not, you know, we're not the team. We were the year before. We're trying to figure out pieces and, and move some things around. We got Chris Guttier in the, in the draft, which helped us. And you know, we, we started turning things around, but now we're in the middle of the season and Jack Kelly's playing for you at team USA and he tears his ACL. That's our star goal. Yeah. So now I'm like, no. Yeah, right. Just lost our starting goalie. So anyway, it wasn't as big of a deal as, as, as it may seem, because our backup goalie was also Team Canada's goalie. Dylan Ward. Oh man. Yeah. Geez, not a bad backup. Yeah, you can't, you can't beat that. Dylan Wards, you know, you know, he's got a lot of race. He's legit. Right. So, anyway, long story short, I know I'm going far with this, but No, this is great. It's our last game of the season. Whoever wins that game gets a bid to the playoffs. Oh man. Yeah. So I have to play in that game. So that week before I go to the surgeon and I, I get a, a, an X-ray and stuff, and he comes in the room and he look at him. I'm like, what's up? He goes, I got good news. Bad. Don't, don't tell me you're about to tell me. He goes, you want, you want the bitter or bad for somebody? Just gimme the news. He goes, your, your wrist healed from last year. He goes, however, somehow you broke it in another spot this year. Oh, okay, we're gonna have to shut you down. And I'm like, stop. This conversation is not gonna leave this room. No one from Denver Outlaws is gonna find out about this and I'll be back on Monday or whenever to have surgery, but I'm not, fuck, you're not fucking telling a word. And to say it lightly, I might've threatened his life. I wasn't gonna, I wasn't sitting out no matter what. Right. Just didn't tell, I didn't tell anyone on the team. I didn't tell the coaches. I wrapped it up a little bit tighter for Atlanta Blaze. We ended up winning. Get into playoffs. And this is the funny thing about lacrosse, Atlanta Blaze. This is where it comes full circle. Atlanta Blaze was the team. I got cut year one in 2016. That was the last game I played as a professional. When I first got there, we beat the, this, the first round of playoffs was against the Chesapeake Bay Hawks, I believe. They were the number one seed. And the team favored to win everything. It's the team that cut me in 2016. We ended up beating them by one goal, or maybe even overtime, game to get to the championship game. And then we end up playing the Rochester Rattlers, who I broke my wrist against in 2017 and got shut down. So, geez, the, the story comes full circle where I, where I'm kind of checking these things off and, and you know, it's a storybook ending. We end up winning in 2018. We beat Rochester. They beat us twice during the year they were stacked. My job responsibility was Ned Crotty. A toured an award winner. Yeah. Attacking a short, I was like, you know, I was like, that's insane. Don't mess this up for the team. Right. But anyway, storybook ending. I won my championship, I got my ring. And it was just, it was one of the most special things I've ever been a part of, but it was emotionally draining and physically draining. How did it feel to hold that championship trophy? So that's what I'm getting do. So I get, so we win the game, they're making the announcement, whatever, and I'm staying with the team. The captains are go getting, go, getting the trophy. And, and I'm gonna say this, the Denver Outlaws organization was the best. Best team I've ever played for Best Locker Room. That's cool. It was just a really tight knit group. And that first game in 2016, coach Seman called me Tinkle. So became a thing in 2018, like get Tinkle a Ring.'cause they all knew my story and how much I was like putting in this and what I needed and you know, was trying to get that. That is great. So get tinkle a ring, get tinkle A ring was like our motto for a little bit. And then so you had Eric Law Drew Schneider and Matt Bockett as our three captains who were the best leaders of men that I've ever been around in, in the sport of lacrosse. Wow. That's cool. They get the trophy first and they turn around and instantly go call me up. They go, Tinel, and they, they give it to me and I raise it above my head and I almost dropped that shit right on my head. My wrist, my wrist was so, oh yeah. And I, I, how it was, I almost literally dropped my head. It was just one of the best. One of the best days of my life to come from what I went through. Right. Work all the way back and have this just fucking roller coaster of a ride. Right. Physically and finally get there. Like I, I watched the game you know, play back on, on, on YouTube or whatever and I, I, I just go to the end'cause I wanted to see,'cause I was on the field, I wanted to see what happened and so I don't really remember it. And I just collapsed. And then Matt Kavanaugh like picks me up and hugs me.'cause he knew how much. But it, it, it was, that's the only thing I was living for. I was running a business, I was doing all this stuff, but the only thing I needed was the ring and the trophy. Right. I put every ounce of energy into that, that I could. And now we'll tune into our interview with four time All Star Jules Henning. And, and a little bit of that research that came up that you weren't a ranked recruit. I guess the way things were done at that stage, Ron and I, there was wasn't much of a ranking. People might have had some rumors, but there was, there was nothing published. But then you go into their r to rts, Jay would've had himself high in the rankings. Oh yeah. Just so you know. He would've, the rumor wa the rumor was I was very high in ranking actually. That's great. That's, that's all he wanted to say, Jules. That's why you brought that whole thing up as long as you earned it, Jay, you know, that's, that's what I respect. Exactly, Jules. Lots of hard work. But you know, there you are at Seton Hall, you become a leader there. And then same thing at Rutgers, you're a two time captain, so by the time you're a junior, you're one of the leaders on the team. And then by the time you're a senior, you're one of the best attacker in the whole country. So just awesome stuff there. So tell us, tell us about that journey there at Rutgers with the Scarlet Knights. Yeah. The. Kind of a similar situation with with what happened at Scene Hall, honestly, where I got there and we had, I got recruited as a Big East Attack man and I wasn't ranked as a recruit. I think that that was, honestly, I don't think I should have been ranked at the time, like relative to some of the kids that like were ranked it at that moment in time. I think there was a couple of kids that I was better than, but I think once you get to like the eighties, nineties, it's like what's the difference between the 90th recruit and the hundred 20th recruit? Like I mm-hmm. I think that, that there's the top 10, the top 20, and these kids, those kids are, you know, those are legitimate lacrosse players, a lot of them. And I don't think I was that good at that time. And so that was one aspect to it. I, when I got recruited, I got recruited late'cause I wasn't playing on a club program. Mm-hmm. And I did think a lot of it, a lot of the circumstances at play for me were just very rare. Where I was a good player, I wasn't the best, but I was a very good player that just wasn't understanding of what was going on. Then I missed the wave of recruiting, so I wasn't, I wasn't good enough to then decommit one of the kids that they had had uhhuh. So like what year, just curious. Would that have been, were there like, all right, we got our class completed. Was that when you were done with your 10th grade year or 11th grade or like what year? Hopkins filled up in 2011. 20, yeah, in 20 11, 20 12. And I got recruited in 20 12, 20 13. So like I remember Shaq was the first verbal commit in our class. And then UN, I wanted to go to UNC and I remember two kids got recruited Taman. And so that was locked up and that was, that was a freshman going into sophomore summer. And then I didn't start to even talk to coaches until sophomore going to Junior. And that was when Rutgers was still in the Big East. And so we, I got recruited as the Big East attack man. I find out they're going to the Big 10. I get there, they're in the Big 10 and now. We were, they had an eight and eight season the year before. And then the, my freshman year we were five and 10, and we had given Monmouth their first ever win in program history. I remember we were tight contest with Wagner. We, I mean, we were not, we were not good, but we weren't far off. That was kind of like thing, like we would play these games and we would lose to Virginia and I could be like, okay, like we lost to Virginia. But I mean, they, we could have kind of beat them. We just weren't all there. Or we lose to Hopkins and we were like, we could have beat them, but like, we just kind of messed up at the end. Like we just didn't have the discipline, the whole game. Yeah. So I was like, again, personally, I, I just took a lot of pride in like my experience. I think so did a lot of the guys in our class, and I would just throw out there and think about how many guys they miss when the class is full of guys who were in that summer between their ninth and 10th grade year. Mm-hmm. I mean, you probably developed a ton. I was a bit of a late bloomer if you were, I know Dylan Malloy was. I mean, imagine how many guys that are, you know, they're just missing out on, so no wonder you guys could become competitive if they're getting kids that are, you know, a little more developed and they can see, all right, this guy's gonna be a legit college player. So, interesting. I, I completely agree with that. I think that was a, a tough thing for a lot of schools, but they're banking on how, how good you were, how physically developed you were as a freshman at 14, 15. That's crazy. I think, I think the, the hardest part about that is just the mental side of it. Like what if you get committed when you're 14? You naturally, you, unless you're a real dog. You're gonna take your foot off the pedal. Right. Right. And unless you have great mentors around you and your parents, and I think a lot of parents in lacrosse is like, Hey, you get committed. It's, I'm cool. It's, I think it's changing. Mm-hmm. But like to be like, Hey, like you, that's the ticket you get committed. That's all I I needed. I don't need you to be a First Team America when you're there. I just need you to, to get there. Have a good experience. So you get a great college education. Now it's becoming really competitive to where, hey, if you're not like staying the course and you, you know, you don't pan out like that's impacting the club teams. It's impacting the relationships with the coaches and how they view the talent pool coming outta certain areas and, and those kind of kids. And so I think we got lucky in a lot of ways that, from the recruiting stuff that we had, I mean, in my class, I think we had four PLL players in my class. Wow, that's football players. And so my sophomore year, a lot of us played our freshman year, got great experience. We lost some games, but we came back our sophomore year. And we were just, I mean, we were just wanted to be great like we really did. I think all of us played a different part in that. I personally played a part in that on the offensive side where I knew like, okay, coach Bret wants, wants me to be a quarterback here. Like that does, there isn't another guy that's significantly like the gap between me and the next guy. We're kind of big. So if I here, like, okay, like he might not be a starter. I'm a starter and I'm over here. Well, can I be a starter or can I be an all-conference player? Can I be an All American? And if I don't keep pushing towards that, we're gonna struggle offensively. Like if I, if I can't provide us. The spark. It's not like we have the next guy behind me who's saying like, okay, take Jules out and, and sub in and Owen Duffy. Right. Like, or Right, right. You know, a, a Brady pono. Like there's no, like next guy up. Mm-hmm. And that was, that was, for me, that gave me a sense of, okay, my spot's kind of safe, but also we're in trouble if I don't figure this out. And, and I, I took that personally and I think a lot of the, our classmates did too. Like we knew what we kind of all like had this PAC sort of like agreement, like we want Rutgers to be great. Mm-hmm. And you know, we kind of just, just took that and, and ran with it. And our sophomore year was incredible. The attack line I was on had Adam Sherman Beatty's, NLL player now. Oh yeah. And he was, he's probably all time goal scorer, one of them at, at Rutgers, maybe top three. And he, was tremendous Canadian talent. And then Scott Vita was the offensive player of the year, big or big 10 player of the year, his senior year coach, offensive coordinator in Michigan. And we were on a attack line together, and both of us are professional players. And so, right. I was like, wow. Like this is, if I can hold my weight to these guys we're, you know, we're gonna be pretty good on, off. Yeah. That, you know, that was, that's awesome. It was kind of just a, you know, I think we got, I don't know if it's luck or like what, but I just looked around and I was like, wow, we actually did have a lot of guys that were really, really talented. Whether we worked at it, whether it was we got recruited the right way, I, I don't know. So it worked out. It worked out. And then what does coach Breck like to play with? So Coach Breck, like four, I guess I should say. He probably didn't do that much playing back then. Yeah. So co coach Breck, the, the thing I, I appreciate most about him was like, he really believed in me personally and gave me a ton of confidence. Like I'd never had someone. Outside of my dad believe in me more than coach Rec did. And I think that he, he instilled that in a lot of his players when he was recruiting you. Like, I brought you here for a reason. Like, I, I need, I want you, I need you. I believe that you can be all Big 10, all American, a program player. Yeah. And so I think he, I, I appreciate that a lot and, and how he did that. And I think he also positioned us to maximize, like our individual talents. I see. Different programs play different ways, but if you have a lot of talent, there's a little bit more you can roll the balls out. And we didn't have that type of talent, but we had it. So where, you know, he, he's empowering his, his coaches coach Jim Mitchell is the offensive coach at Princeton now who, who I think is doing some of the most phenomenal work in the country as far as offense. Yeah. What he's built with Sours Coulter, McAfee, and, and just some of the. The guys you see there, Chad Palumbo and just some of what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah. The free flowing Kabiri the para sets, just the early offense, the stuff that they're doing. I took for granted that like we were being positioned to maximize our strengths. Where I think I look at some other programs and I'm like, man, you guys have excellent talent, but these guys are not being utilized well. Mm-hmm. And I, I'm pr I'm producing, but like, who Is it more that I'm ta as talented as you? Or am I being positioned to maximize my talent? And that, that's something I always appreciated about Coach Brecht and just the program is I always felt like they were trying to put me and other guys in spots to have you shine and Right. And hide your deficits away. Mm-hmm. Kinda maximize your upside. Yeah. Yep. And, and give you like, hey, like you're not Jules, you're not a great outside shooter. I need you to get there. But like in the meantime, like, let's put you in spots where you're gonna be able to be around the cage and do this and do that. And like now you can score four or five goals a game. We'll hide that you're not a good outside shooter. Eventually they'll catch on. Can you get better at that in the meantime And mm-hmm. So with, with that type of mindset from Coach Breck, is that something that got you starting to think about getting into coaching yourself or starting to mentor players, you know, that kind of encouragement and also your experience with your Seton Hall coach? I think, honestly, I always felt compelled to really share any, like, information that I get. Like maybe, maybe even to a fault, like hoping that people would, would buy into it or catch on. And the reality is some people are just where they're at and that they don't, they don't want to do the work and they don't, they don't wanna take it as seriously as I do, which is to, it's totally fine. Like it's no harm, no foul. If you're my teammate, sometimes I, I like take that personally. But everyone's in a different position. That's just, you know, kind of just for me, for my life. But I always felt that in, in sport and in lacrosse. So if I learned something, saw something on film you know, had a technique, whatever it might be, like, I want everyone to have it because I'm like, Hey, if this is helping me, I know this can help you and if you get better, we're gonna get better. And so I never felt like I wanted to, to get better in a vacuum. I always wanted to share in, in getting better with other people. And I think that was kind of the start of it for me, like my sort of passion or purpose around just being a mentor, being a coach, being a teacher. And then I think when I got to college, something that I was hoping for more of was personal development on the field. And you realize fast that like there's only three coaches, I think now there's more paid positions. But back then, like yeah, we got an offensive coordinator trying to have 30 guys. Right. Better practice like that. Very to do. Yeah. And, and that's something you see.'cause I kinda saw the same thing, just coaching at a much lower level on the travel level, but it's like, you don't have time. Like I just said, you've got 30 guys you're working with, there's no way you're gonna get their skills better. So it was more that that planted the seed, but you're like, all right, I could really help these guys between practices and really get their skills geared up. Is is that what you're exactly getting into? Yeah. And, and that in other sports, like football, like there's a receiver coach, there's an old line coach there. There's a coach. Like we don't, we're not there yet. So I'm taking whatever information from Coach Mitchell on the offensive side that he can give me. But like, he can't go out and do re extra reps with me, right. Like this game of, all right, I'm gonna get developed in practice, but only really for like 15 or 20 minutes. Then it's. It's, we have to work on all the team strategy stuff. Yeah. But where, where am I gonna to take, where am I gonna take another step as a player? It's gonna be in the summer, in the wintertime and during, you know, my two or three days of extra work outside of practice, deliberate extra work, we called it outside of practice. That, that really started to change my not only trajectory as a player, but also my mentally, how I viewed development. And that I knew that if that worked for me, that it could work for others. And so I, I just felt like no one, even to this day, like I can talk about it till I'm blue in the face, but there's just something about working on one or two very specific skills, you know, for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 weeks in a row where you see the growth of it. Totally. Yeah. And you see it, it manifests itself in the game. And you're like, wait, I was literally working on that. And then it, I built confidence. Then I went for it and practiced and I went for it in the game and it worked okay like this because it's either you do that or you're just so talented that you don't need to do that or, or a mix of both. And I think it's kind of get lost in that they have to be so talented. Or they're not gonna make it. It's like, no, you just have to really hone in on your, your process of development. Right. And that's exactly what I've seen too, timeframe wise. Like, it kids will come out with you a couple times, a couple weeks. It's more like six weeks. Right. You're just at six to eight weeks. I feel like that is the magic number. We've had a bunch of other coaches on it. It just takes that much time to kind of train them into whatever it is you're, you're showing'em to do. So that's very cool. Good to, good to hear. Until we meet again. Here's to hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the get the lax scoop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.