Beyond Talent: 4X All Star Jules Heningburg’s Lacrosse Odyssey, Part II.

In this episode of 'Get the LAX Scoop,' hosts Big Dawg and Jaybird dive into the world of lacrosse, bringing in prominent names in the game. The episode features an enriching interview with Jules Heningburg, a four-time Pro Lacrosse All-Star and founder of the LAX Lab. Jules discusses his journey from being an unranked recruit to becoming one of the best attackers in college lacrosse and eventually a star in the Professional Lacrosse League (PLL). He emphasizes the importance of continuous personal development, the role of mentorship, and the unique challenges of being a professional lacrosse player. The hosts also touch on the significance of specialized skills training for players aiming to elevate their performance. This episode is the second in a three-part series and promises valuable insights for both new and seasoned lacrosse enthusiasts.

00:00 Introduction to Get the Lax Scoop

00:23 Meet the Hosts and Guest

00:59 Welcome and Episode Overview

01:29 Jules Henningburg's Early Career

02:24 Recruitment Challenges and College Journey

04:13 Rutgers Lacrosse Experience

11:40 Coaching and Mentorship Insights

15:52 Importance of Skill Development

17:36 Professional Lacrosse Journey

25:06 Challenges and Future of Pro Lacrosse

32:18 Conclusion and Sign-Off

NEW BOOK!
Inside the Recruiting Game: Insights From College Lacrosse Coaches
-Available on Amazon.com as an Ebook and paperback


Links to training videos:
Master The 5 Best Dodges From the Wing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7LDOcQQ6Q&t=88s

Blazing Shots... on the Run!
https://youtu.be/XiptPlM63oQ

Check us out...

On YouTube @jaymcmahonlax23
On Instagram @jaymcmahonlax23
On Facebook @: facebook.com/jmcmahonlax23. Page name: Jay McMahon Lacrosse

Jules Heningburg: https://thelaxlab.com/

Check out!... Coach Tintle's Lacrosse Barn:

https://g.co/kgs/eXedCXf

SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts

Brian Cain Daily Dominator on Apple Podcasts

Lacrosse Charities Mentioned in S2 E36:
https://www.4thefuturefoundation.org/

https://www.harlemlacrosse.org/

https://15forlife.org/

Transcript

0:00

It's time for Get the Lack Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know in the game of lacrosse. We take lack seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join host Big Dog and Jaybird and the biggest names in the game brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training. Ron Doglish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the Sports Foundation. And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All American midfielder at Brown. He was the captain of the U. S. Junior National Team and is the founder of JML. And Joining us in the studio, Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training, helping the next generation of lacrosse players get to the next level Hello everyone, and for those who are new to the show, welcome. We're super excited to release this second episode of our three-part interview series with four time Pro lacrosse. All-star and founder of the LAX Lab, Jules Henning burg. If you have not heard the prior session, we strongly encourage you to go back and check it out. It was both intriguing and insightful. You'll find this interview in progress. We hope you enjoy. And, and a little bit of that research that came up that you weren't a ranked recruit. I guess the way things were done at that stage, Ron and I, there was wasn't much of a ranking. People might have had some rumors, but there was, there was nothing published. But then you go into their r to rts, Jay would've had himself high in the rankings. Oh yeah. Just so you know. He would've, the rumor wa the rumor was I was very high in ranking actually. That's great. That's, that's all he wanted to say, Jules. That's why you brought that whole thing up as long as you earned it, Jay, you know, that's, that's what I respect. Exactly, Jules. Lots of hard work. But you know, there you are at Seton Hall, you become a leader there. And then same thing at Rutgers, you're a two time captain, so by the time you're a junior, you're one of the leaders on the team. And then by the time you're a senior, you're one of the best attacker in the whole country. So just awesome stuff there. So tell us, tell us about that journey there at Rutgers with the Scarlet Knights. Yeah. The. Kind of a similar situation with with what happened at Scene Hall, honestly, where I got there and we had, I got recruited as a Big East Attack man and I wasn't ranked as a recruit. I think that that was, honestly, I don't think I should have been ranked at the time, like relative to some of the kids that like were ranked it at that moment in time. I think there was a couple of kids that I was better than, but I think once you get to like the eighties, nineties, it's like what's the difference between the 90th recruit and the hundred 20th recruit? Like I mm-hmm. I think that, that there's the top 10, the top 20, and these kids, those kids are, you know, those are legitimate lacrosse players, a lot of them. And I don't think I was that good at that time. And so that was one aspect to it. I, when I got recruited, I got recruited late'cause I wasn't playing on a club program. Mm-hmm. And I did think a lot of it, a lot of the circumstances at play for me were just very rare. Where I was a good player, I wasn't the best, but I was a very good player that just wasn't understanding of what was going on. Then I missed the wave of recruiting, so I wasn't, I wasn't good enough to then decommit one of the kids that they had had uhhuh. So like what year, just curious. Would that have been, were there like, all right, we got our class completed. Was that when you were done with your 10th grade year or 11th grade or like what year? Hopkins filled up in 2011. 20, yeah, in 20 11, 20 12. And I got recruited in 20 12, 20 13. So like I remember Shaq was the first verbal commit in our class. And then UN, I wanted to go to UNC and I remember two kids got recruited Taman. And so that was locked up and that was, that was a freshman going into sophomore summer. And then I didn't start to even talk to coaches until sophomore going to Junior. And that was when Rutgers was still in the Big East. And so we, I got recruited as the Big East attack man. I find out they're going to the Big 10. I get there, they're in the Big 10 and now. We were, they had an eight and eight season the year before. And then the, my freshman year we were five and 10, and we had given Monmouth their first ever win in program history. I remember we were tight contest with Wagner. We, I mean, we were not, we were not good, but we weren't far off. That was kind of like thing, like we would play these games and we would lose to Virginia and I could be like, okay, like we lost to Virginia. But I mean, they, we could have kind of beat them. We just weren't all there. Or we lose to Hopkins and we were like, we could have beat them, but like, we just kind of messed up at the end. Like we just didn't have the discipline, the whole game. Yeah. So I was like, again, personally, I, I just took a lot of pride in like my experience. I think so did a lot of the guys in our class, and I would just throw out there and think about how many guys they miss when the class is full of guys who were in that summer between their ninth and 10th grade year. Mm-hmm. I mean, you probably developed a ton. I was a bit of a late bloomer if you were, I know Dylan Malloy was. I mean, imagine how many guys that are, you know, they're just missing out on, so no wonder you guys could become competitive if they're getting kids that are, you know, a little more developed and they can see, all right, this guy's gonna be a legit college player. So, interesting. I, I completely agree with that. I think that was a, a tough thing for a lot of schools, but they're banking on how, how good you were, how physically developed you were as a freshman at 14, 15. That's crazy. I think, I think the, the hardest part about that is just the mental side of it. Like what if you get committed when you're 14? You naturally, you, unless you're a real dog. You're gonna take your foot off the pedal. Right. Right. And unless you have great mentors around you and your parents, and I think a lot of parents in lacrosse is like, Hey, you get committed. It's, I'm cool. It's, I think it's changing. Mm-hmm. But like to be like, Hey, like you, that's the ticket you get committed. That's all I I needed. I don't need you to be a First Team America when you're there. I just need you to, to get there. Have a good experience. So you get a great college education. Now it's becoming really competitive to where, hey, if you're not like staying the course and you, you know, you don't pan out like that's impacting the club teams. It's impacting the relationships with the coaches and how they view the talent pool coming outta certain areas and, and those kind of kids. And so I think we got lucky in a lot of ways that, from the recruiting stuff that we had, I mean, in my class, I think we had four PLL players in my class. Wow, that's football players. And so my sophomore year, a lot of us played our freshman year, got great experience. We lost some games, but we came back our sophomore year. And we were just, I mean, we were just wanted to be great like we really did. I think all of us played a different part in that. I personally played a part in that on the offensive side where I knew like, okay, coach Bret wants, wants me to be a quarterback here. Like that does, there isn't another guy that's significantly like the gap between me and the next guy. We're kind of big. So if I here, like, okay, like he might not be a starter. I'm a starter and I'm over here. Well, can I be a starter or can I be an all-conference player? Can I be an All American? And if I don't keep pushing towards that, we're gonna struggle offensively. Like if I, if I can't provide us. The spark. It's not like we have the next guy behind me who's saying like, okay, take Jules out and, and sub in and Owen Duffy. Right. Like, or Right, right. You know, a, a Brady pono. Like there's no, like next guy up. Mm-hmm. And that was, that was, for me, that gave me a sense of, okay, my spot's kind of safe, but also we're in trouble if I don't figure this out. And, and I, I took that personally and I think a lot of the, our classmates did too. Like we knew what we kind of all like had this PAC sort of like agreement, like we want Rutgers to be great. Mm-hmm. And you know, we kind of just, just took that and, and ran with it. And our sophomore year was incredible. The attack line I was on had Adam Sherman Beatty's, NLL player now. Oh yeah. And he was, he's probably all time goal scorer, one of them at, at Rutgers, maybe top three. And he, was tremendous Canadian talent. And then Scott Vita was the offensive player of the year, big or big 10 player of the year, his senior year coach, offensive coordinator in Michigan. And we were on a attack line together, and both of us are professional players. And so, right. I was like, wow. Like this is, if I can hold my weight to these guys we're, you know, we're gonna be pretty good on, off. Yeah. That, you know, that was, that's awesome. It was kind of just a, you know, I think we got, I don't know if it's luck or like what, but I just looked around and I was like, wow, we actually did have a lot of guys that were really, really talented. Whether we worked at it, whether it was we got recruited the right way, I, I don't know. So it worked out. It worked out. And then what does coach Breck like to play with? So Coach Breck, like four, I guess I should say. He probably didn't do that much playing back then. Yeah. So co coach Breck, the, the thing I, I appreciate most about him was like, he really believed in me personally and gave me a ton of confidence. Like I'd never had someone. Outside of my dad believe in me more than coach Rec did. And I think that he, he instilled that in a lot of his players when he was recruiting you. Like, I brought you here for a reason. Like, I, I need, I want you, I need you. I believe that you can be all Big 10, all American, a program player. Yeah. And so I think he, I, I appreciate that a lot and, and how he did that. And I think he also positioned us to maximize, like our individual talents. I see. Different programs play different ways, but if you have a lot of talent, there's a little bit more you can roll the balls out. And we didn't have that type of talent, but we had it. So where, you know, he, he's empowering his, his coaches coach Jim Mitchell is the offensive coach at Princeton now who, who I think is doing some of the most phenomenal work in the country as far as offense. Yeah. What he's built with Sours Coulter, McAfee, and, and just some of the. The guys you see there, Chad Palumbo and just some of what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah. The free flowing Kabiri the para sets, just the early offense, the stuff that they're doing. I took for granted that like we were being positioned to maximize our strengths. Where I think I look at some other programs and I'm like, man, you guys have excellent talent, but these guys are not being utilized well. Mm-hmm. And I, I'm pr I'm producing, but like, who Is it more that I'm ta as talented as you? Or am I being positioned to maximize my talent? And that, that's something I always appreciated about Coach Brecht and just the program is I always felt like they were trying to put me and other guys in spots to have you shine and Right. And hide your deficits away. Mm-hmm. Kinda maximize your upside. Yeah. Yep. And, and give you like, hey, like you're not Jules, you're not a great outside shooter. I need you to get there. But like in the meantime, like, let's put you in spots where you're gonna be able to be around the cage and do this and do that. And like now you can score four or five goals a game. We'll hide that you're not a good outside shooter. Eventually they'll catch on. Can you get better at that in the meantime And mm-hmm. So with, with that type of mindset from Coach Breck, is that something that got you starting to think about getting into coaching yourself or starting to mentor players, you know, that kind of encouragement and also your experience with your Seton Hall coach? I think, honestly, I always felt compelled to really share any, like, information that I get. Like maybe, maybe even to a fault, like hoping that people would, would buy into it or catch on. And the reality is some people are just where they're at and that they don't, they don't want to do the work and they don't, they don't wanna take it as seriously as I do, which is to, it's totally fine. Like it's no harm, no foul. If you're my teammate, sometimes I, I like take that personally. But everyone's in a different position. That's just, you know, kind of just for me, for my life. But I always felt that in, in sport and in lacrosse. So if I learned something, saw something on film you know, had a technique, whatever it might be, like, I want everyone to have it because I'm like, Hey, if this is helping me, I know this can help you and if you get better, we're gonna get better. And so I never felt like I wanted to, to get better in a vacuum. I always wanted to share in, in getting better with other people. And I think that was kind of the start of it for me, like my sort of passion or purpose around just being a mentor, being a coach, being a teacher. And then I think when I got to college, something that I was hoping for more of was personal development on the field. And you realize fast that like there's only three coaches, I think now there's more paid positions. But back then, like yeah, we got an offensive coordinator trying to have 30 guys. Right. Better practice like that. Very to do. Yeah. And, and that's something you see.'cause I kinda saw the same thing, just coaching at a much lower level on the travel level, but it's like, you don't have time. Like I just said, you've got 30 guys you're working with, there's no way you're gonna get their skills better. So it was more that that planted the seed, but you're like, all right, I could really help these guys between practices and really get their skills geared up. Is is that what you're exactly getting into? Yeah. And, and that in other sports, like football, like there's a receiver coach, there's an old line coach there. There's a coach. Like we don't, we're not there yet. So I'm taking whatever information from Coach Mitchell on the offensive side that he can give me. But like, he can't go out and do re extra reps with me, right. Like this game of, all right, I'm gonna get developed in practice, but only really for like 15 or 20 minutes. Then it's. It's, we have to work on all the team strategy stuff. Yeah. But where, where am I gonna to take, where am I gonna take another step as a player? It's gonna be in the summer, in the wintertime and during, you know, my two or three days of extra work outside of practice, deliberate extra work, we called it outside of practice. That, that really started to change my not only trajectory as a player, but also my mentally, how I viewed development. And that I knew that if that worked for me, that it could work for others. And so I, I just felt like no one, even to this day, like I can talk about it till I'm blue in the face, but there's just something about working on one or two very specific skills, you know, for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 weeks in a row where you see the growth of it. Totally. Yeah. And you see it, it manifests itself in the game. And you're like, wait, I was literally working on that. And then it, I built confidence. Then I went for it and practiced and I went for it in the game and it worked okay like this because it's either you do that or you're just so talented that you don't need to do that or, or a mix of both. And I think it's kind of get lost in that they have to be so talented. Or they're not gonna make it. It's like, no, you just have to really hone in on your, your process of development. Right. And that's exactly what I've seen too, timeframe wise. Like, it kids will come out with you a couple times, a couple weeks. It's more like six weeks. Right. You're just at six to eight weeks. I feel like that is the magic number. We've had a bunch of other coaches on it. It just takes that much time to kind of train them into whatever it is you're, you're showing'em to do. So that's very cool. Good to, good to hear.

Jay: 15:46

How about if we transition to. J m l and let's do that.

15:52

Ladies and gentlemen, I've gotta say I really love what Coach Hanberg has just stated, and that is it is not possible for a player to improve their skills at team practice because the way you gain a skill, such as being able to say, drop your hands and shoot high accurately, is by its very nature, going to require many, many repetitions. Over the course of six to eight weeks before it becomes fluid, dependable, and part of a player's muscle memory. So a player cannot just start trying something completely new at a team practice'cause he or she simply will not get the repetitions that are necessary to make that happen. Not to mention a player will also learn skills more quickly and effectively when they work with someone who is dedicated many, many years to mastering the game, such as a skills trainer, skills trainers like Jules Henning and our prior guests, Nick Tinel, Jamie Monroe, and myself. Every other sport has benefited greatly from players working on their skills between practices. With talented professionals, lacrosse skills trainers are helping take the sport of lacrosse to the next level. So don't get left behind. Join the literally thousands of players who have jumped on board and are enjoying the ride. If you wanna learn more, check out these coaches' information in our show notes, or check out the JML YouTube channel also listed in the show notes. There, you'll find a number of free instructional videos listed and you can always direct message me for online or in person training. Now we will return to our interview and you will find that interview in progress. So as a pro, you know, you were four time all star, as we were saying in the opening and I was just looking at that first season. I remember that really well. Where that 2019 season you get traded to the redwoods and then they get to the final. And that finals game was just unbelievable. It was like one to one after the first quarter and then it was something like nine to one. The whip snakes are winning. And then you come all the way back, tie it, and then you're leading and then it goes into ot. So tell us about that. And then I just wanted to throw in there a stat that I was looking at the statistics. You know, you were an all star that year in 2019, and you were tied for second in the league for points per game with Tommy Schreiber and Connor Fields. And then just like a decimal point behind Matt Rambo, who's the MVP? So you're, you're keeping pretty good company there. Damn. But, but tell us. It was unbelievable. That's so tell us a little bit about that. That's some serious company. Oh my gosh. Crazy. So tell us about that, that year and that situation, and then with Na St. Laurent just retiring, we'll, we'll throw that in as a follow up, but just let's focus on the, the play and the players that first year in the league. Yeah. Well, well to, to set the stage, Matt Rambo and I have been playing against each other since my freshman year at Rutgers. I've rarely got the best of them. I have got the best of them a few times, but not when it's mattered most. And that's, I You have got the best of'em. I like to be, I've gotten the best of'em. But it speaks to Maryland and, and what they built there and just you see it again this year, which they're doing it with, not the talent that they had. Yeah, that's crazy. Back in, in 16, 17, 18, I mean, they had Bernhard, which now Kelly Cock Rambo Brian Cole, who's in the NLL. And then you have Mueller Burn like you have. Yeah. All crazy talent. Unbelievable. Berlin. Yeah. Pro Hall of Fame level players for worked time winners up and down the roster. And then we have Rutgers and it's like we're going up against these guys and we're competing like every game was a fight. Triple over time my junior year where they won the national championship, we, we lose them on Easter Sunday. Wow. And I always, you know, when, when we'd play against'em like that, to me that was the, that was the biggest game of the year. Like that is we play Maryland. Like you're locked in. Everything matters, every ground ball matters, every opportunity to, to strike matters.'cause if they get the ball, they're gonna strike. They're gonna make it happen. Mm-hmm. And I just remember like, that was kind of my barometer that I had to, to be competing at if I wanted to be great because they were, they were the, the best team in the country. And my soft pretty, yeah, pretty high barometer. Yeah. And, but that, that was that for me though, that, that was great, right? Like there is no, no great player unless you have a great opponent at the end of the day. And, and I felt like that was kind of Matt Rambo to me. It was like he was the, the great opponent that I was trying to, to really compete against. And I remember my sophomore year, I was the only all Big 10 player that wasn't an All American first team, all Big 10 player. But I led the conference in goals and it was Rambo, it was immense. It was, you know, this guy, that guy. And so that kind of like, I was like, okay, like is that'cause I'm at Rutgers? Is that'cause you know, we didn't make the tournament. I don't know, but I'm right there with like, I'm right there with you. Like I'm showing up, I'm doing it with a lot less talent. So I knew if I was playing with some, some more talented players like you better Mac O'Keefe or somebody like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like all, all time leading gold scorer, like n NCAA a history. Right, right. And we're playing with a bunch of ragtag guys. We were good, but like we did not have that like in the record on our team. Right. And so fast forward to the PLL you know, I was playing on the whips, snakes, and I, and so now I'm on the other side and I'm looking and I'm like, we're gonna win the championship. Like we are really good. And we have a strong culture. These guys show up every week. They care, they're locked in. We compete really hard and you just look up in that locker room. And I was trying to play attack, like that was my natural position and I just think Coach was running me outta tech sometimes he was running me outta the box and it was, you know, he made a decision where it was a good decision for me in my career at that point where they had Ryan Rener, they had Ben Reeves tour time winner, Matt Rambo, Jay Carlson, who becomes their starter for their three, their two championships that they win. And obviously Matt Rambo. And so I was kind of the odd man out and so he traded me to the, the Redwoods. And that was great for me from a development standpoint and kind of like an opportunity for me to shine a little bit more where we had far away more offensive talent on the whip snakes than we did on the Redwoods. We had some talent to players, don't get me wrong, like Kavanaugh Zi per we perfectly. We had guys. But I just don't think from a, a continuity standpoint and a pedigree standpoint, they had a different level of that on the whips snakes. So it gave me an opportunity to, to really have to do more and be more, you know, be, have less of a role player and more of like, you have to, you have to do more if we're gonna be good. And I think also at that point, they had created these teams, so they were missing Malloy who was still in MLL, Peter Baum went on that team.'cause he had just, I guess just stepped away, formerly retired. And so there was a vacuum a bit. And so that was a great opportunity for me. And statistically it was a great year and we made it to the championships the last time I made it to a championship in the PLL. And honestly, that's, that's what you're striving for. Like the stats are cool, the accolades are cool, but like, at the end of the day, like winning is, is just the most rewarding experience when you do it with a group of people you care about and you have that journey together. And so that, that's really what I'm ultimately searching for and, and want out of my, my time. And I haven't had that yet. And, you know, I'll do whatever it takes personally to just develop myself and, and be the best teammate, leader, whatever I need to be to, to make that happening.'cause when you win with a, you know, again, with a group of people you care about, like those are memories and experiences, which I'm sure you guys can talk about. You have'em for the rest of your life. And that's what, that's what life's all about. Right. That's great. Yeah, no, no doubt about it. Tell us about coach Nat St. Laurent, if you could. Yeah. Co coach Nat, I mean, in, in similar fashion to Coach Brecht, super loyal guy, believes in his players. And every time I would, I just remember something he would do, like, he would always encourage me to just be myself, like. He just wanted me nothing more to just go out there, be Jules. And when I, when I would do that and, and I would, you know, show up, like there was opportunities where, you know, I was the best, best player on the field on any given day. And he, he saw that in me and, and wanted that outta me. And I always appreciated him for that and, and kind of that belief. And I think anyone that has played for him can say that he is, he is someone that has that just that energy and that approach to, you know, really just being there for his players. Mm-hmm. Even to a fault sometimes, you know, I think that they, the coaches are put in a tough position, starting to change a little bit, but in that league, they're the GM and the head coach. Yeah. You know, it's really hard be a guy that believes in someone so much, but if they're not doing their job, they're not playing well, maybe there's another guy they need to go get. They're like kind of like torn, do I? Right. Right. So I think, you know, you see Selena got hired as a gm. We got a gm, a coach with Spencer Ford on RC. Yeah. I think separates that and makes the, makes it a little bit more professional and, and makes the job of the coach a little bit easier. Right. And the coach really can be a player's coach and not have to worry about that business side of things. Yeah. Yep. Cool. So Jules, I was just thinking, you know, it's a, it's a pretty, I love your story for young kids, right? Because I think so many of these kids, and we, we've kind of alluded to this, think there's only one path. You know, there's only one way. And like if ever there's a journey to playing at the very highest level of the game that took a circuitous route, you know it's yours. Yeah. And I think it's just such a great thing for kids who, especially in today's club era, I just think they think there's this one way to get where you want to get. So it's just an amazing. Story from where your, your career started to where it's come. And, and I, and I just wanna see if you can reflect a little bit more, and you were just alluding to it, the state of professional lacrosse and what it is to be a pro lacrosse player. You know, where do you see that game right now? What's the next step? Because, you know, for those who don't know, it's not quite yet a full-time gig. Right, Jules? And, you know, you're, it's a lot of pressure on these guys who have jobs and then you're basically coming in for a weekend. You don't get a ton of practice time. So talk about the experience of being a professional or cross player on those realities, and then where your hopes are for, for sort of the next stage of professional lacrosse. Yeah. Honestly, I, I think it's it, it's definitely been tough overall for me in, in my career in that I, I've never been the most talented player, so I've always had to find ways to. Stay the course, get better. And doing that in a, in a manner where you're not with your team all the time and you don't have a professional place to do it out of, and you don't have the trainers that you might have, you're in the NFL or the NBA, like finding all those things. It's the, the best players and the guys that stay around the longest are ones that sort of create that, that space for themselves in their own right. Wherever they are in, in the country. And that's always, that's always changed for me. Like, I lived in San Diego for my first year and I was playing box. Hmm. So I was getting these box reps and I was doing that thing. I had to stick in my hand all the time. I was doing that. And then I would coach high school and I would suit up with the high school team and then Covid hit, and then we were doing nothing, right? Like you were just literally by yourself or with your housemate, so now you're not getting that as much. Then 21, 21 comes and I'm not playing box and I'm moving back to the East coast. So now I'm, I'm gonna transition where I'm like reevaluating what, what it is that I'm doing to get better, like. Finding new trainers, new, you know, new this, new that. I haven't quite gotten back into like having the high school program, but now I am and I have more time than I've ever had this year for training. So like it's always been different and I think some guys are just so talented that it doesn't matter when you think about just like your career window, like the NBA guys aren't really coming into their own until like year 5, 6, 7, and then they're looking at like seven to 14 as like their prime. And maybe you start to dwindle down. Like Steph Curry's probably dwindling down now. Well, bronze not dwindling down, which is right. But you know, you look at some of these guys and they're just, the time it takes for them to develop is so different. Where in pro lacrosse, it's like you get outta college and a lot of people think that that's your best year. That was, I knew that was not gonna be my best year was outta college. My rookie season in Florida, I had a, I had a great year. I was second rookie in the league in points. And I, I did very well, but I was on a team. We weren't very, you know, very successful as a team overall in Florida. Had a great experience. But then I was like, I, I wanna figure out ways to get better. And I think some guys have this, this window of time where they're looking at like, I'm only gonna have a seven or eight year career anyway. So I'm just, I don't, I don't, I'm so talented that I don't really need to do as much. Like I can just really go be me for seven years and I'm, I'm good, I'm done. Where I think the next stage of this is, hey, like you come outta college and like, that's not your best year. Like that's your rookie season. You need to find a role, you need to find a way to get on the field. And now, like, how do you build every year so that by year five, not only are you getting compensated appropriately to where you feel like you're. Pro, but like you're kind of stepping into your own at 25, 26, 27, where like now you're in your prime. Like I think we've missed a lot of guys primes because they're, maybe they're not, they don't take care of their bodies as much'cause they don't have the trainers, the nutrition, this, that, and the third, like, you're 30, like you should be peaking physically, you shouldn't be. Mm-hmm. And I think that, that, that's been something I've been fortunate where I've always built and I've figured out ways to do it. But I've seen the struggle for myself. And I know other guys are, I'm doing that as a full-time lacrosse guy. Other guys jobs in New York City and, and maybe they're three martini lunches, steak dinners, literally. So off, man, I've been very fortunate with it. I think the next stage is, is we do have to get paid more. Like we did take a step forward in 2019 that the, the wages have not gone up since then. But I think they have to be able to tell a college kid, like. Hey, no other job. You are a full-time player with this league. We can compensate you as such and we need you to be training year round and we want, you know, in five years for you to look up and your salary's going up again. So have something to look forward to instead of kind of, you know, stagnating, which I think we're stagnating a little bit and I'm excited to see what kind of the next phase is. But like, that's been, it's been an upward trend and now I think we're, we're kind of here and we're waiting for that next jolt, whether it's the Olympics, whether it's the game. Yeah, I, I was just gonna say, it seems like, it seems like so much seems to be riding in terms of the popularity of the sport and that next big spike forward in, in what's might be possible with the Olympics. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, we, we will see. I'm hopeful though. Yeah. Well Jules, the other thing I, I. You know, it, it was interesting. I see a couple of lines where you talked about at Rutgers, right? Needing to understand that even when you are around a team five, six days a week and have that practice, you gotta have that individual growth mindset, right? Because the reality of the, the individual development time. And so it seems like that served you well in the PLL where that's even, I don't know, it's 10 times the reality there, right? I mean, you, you just have so little time around your team that if you're not getting better on your own or you're not just ridiculously talented, it's just not gonna happen. It, it's true. And, and there are a lot of guys, don't get me wrong, and it's not just a PLL, you see this in the NBA. I don't know if you see it in the NFL as much just because of how physically demanding that that sport is. But definitely in the NBA, you got guys that are just, you know, they're on multimillion dollar contracts and, and this guy, you hear you hear stories about this guy you hear stories about this guy You hear, you hear what? What is it that you hear about this guy to find out. Tune in next week. Until we meet again. Here's to hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the get the lax scoop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.