The Brothers Munro: Where True Grit & Innovation Meet, Part III

Get the Lax Scoop, hosted by Big Dawg and Jaybird, is a lacrosse-focused podcast featuring interviews with prominent figures in the sport. This episode focuses on skills development, coaching methodologies, and the evolving philosophy around training in lacrosse. Discussions include the importance of real-game contexts over traditional drills, the benefits of small-sided games, and contemporary theories like ecological dynamics in skill acquisition. The episode features an interview with Jamie and Neil Monroe, Brown Athletic Hall of Famers, touching on personal anecdotes and their lifelong connection to lacrosse. Training tips for young players, comparisons of traditional and modern coaching practices, and insights into creating competitive, enjoyable training environments were also shared. The segment concludes with lighter moments discussing off-field experiences and familial bonds forged through lacrosse.

NEW BOOK!
Inside the Recruiting Game: Insights From College Lacrosse Coaches
-Available on Amazon.com as an Ebook and paperback


Links to training videos:
Master The 5 Best Dodges From the Wing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7LDOcQQ6Q&t=88s

Blazing Shots... on the Run!
https://youtu.be/XiptPlM63oQ

Check us out...

On YouTube @jaymcmahonlax23
On Instagram @jaymcmahonlax23
On Facebook @: facebook.com/jmcmahonlax23. Page name: Jay McMahon Lacrosse

Check out!... Coach Tintle's Lacrosse Barn:

https://g.co/kgs/eXedCXf

SuccessHotline with Dr. Rob Gilbert on Ironclad & Apple Podcasts

Brian Cain Daily Dominator on Apple Podcasts

Jon Gordon Positive U. Podcast on Spotify

Mindset: The New Psychology of Success, Carol Dweck, PhD on Amazon.

Lacrosse Charities Mentioned in S2 E36:
https://www.4thefuturefoundation.org/

https://www.harlemlacrosse.org/

https://15forlife.org/

Transcript

0:00

It's time for Get the Lack Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know in the game of lacrosse. We take lack seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join host Big Dog and Jaybird and the biggest names in the game brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training. Ron Doglish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the Sports Foundation. And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All American midfielder at Brown. He was the captain of the U. S. Junior National Team and is the founder of JML. And Joining us in the studio, Steve Grisolfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training, helping the next generation of lacrosse players get to the next level. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Get the Lack Scoop podcast. Today, we are sharing our three part interview series with Brown Athletic Hall of Famers and brothers, Jamie and Neil Monroe. If you have not listened to part one, We highly recommend you go back and do so. As it ties in beautifully to what we discussed going forward, you will find this interview in progress. So Jamie, I wanted to follow up with that conversation about the way your own thinking has evolved around skills and. You know, we got a lot of parents and kids who are in that middle school, high school range, kind of the wheelhouse of kids you've worked with forever to try to develop their games. And so, you know, can you talk about, and I know I've talked with you about, you know, the, the way you think about. For instance, all these tournaments and everything has value, but you go to these tournaments and the number of touches a kid might get in a whole weekend, you know, versus, you know, some of the interactive online training that you're doing and the way. that kid can really develop their skills or that kind of one on one skills training that I know my friend Jay does live with players. So can you talk about what role they each have to play in a player's development, small sided games, which I know you also are a huge proponent of. So talk about what do you tell middle school and high school players to do today who really want to develop their skills? Yeah, the biggest thing you guys is that that I would love parents to sort of really consider is that the the traditional the traditional coaching model is that you will Master techniques and you'll rehearse them and practice them and master them these fundamentals And with the idea that you will be able to deploy them in a game at the right time and that is from And when skill acquisition became a thing in the 1960s, there was an information processing theory, and that's where this comes from which said that we perceive our surroundings, we make a choice, like a Terminator, like you have like all these choices to choose from, pick your skill, you do it, and then you make a decision to do something, and this, this contemporary skill acquisition theory that I, that I referenced a minute ago called ecological dynamics is ecological dynamics. This is like being studied all over the world, not so much on lacrosse, but in, in, in, in, in tons of different ways, not just sports. You can get a PhD in ecological dynamics. Okay. But what it says is we perceive our surroundings and we act instantaneously and we self organize. And so what this means is everything we're doing all this is not just in sports. This is all day long. We perceive our surroundings as human beings. It explains human movement. We perceive our surroundings. And we act instantaneously and we self organize self organized part means it's different every time. It's never the same. There is no one technique. There's no one way to do anything because there's no two situations that occur exactly the same. And it's all about perception. So when you think about the words lacrosse IQ. What does that mean? Lacrosse IQ means a smart player, right? Lacrosse IQ basically is your decision making paired with your skills. So for parents the most important thing that your kids can do is find coaches that are going to do stuff with them that are live One on O's don't make you better because there's no decision making. There's no lacrosse IQ. Does it mean it's a total waste of time to ever work on stick work? No, but you're not actually getting better at the game. And so there's just not enough time to spend a lot of time when you're not actually getting better at the game itself. So just being in a one on one where you get to dodge a defender is going to be light years better than dodging a cone. You show me a technique of a perfect technique, I'll put a defender on that player, that technique will not happen that way. It just doesn't and so it's back to the whole free play thing. It's kind of how we all grew up playing sports And which is kind of what's brought me back to all of this is that the way we grew up playing was just we played and sure Neil referenced that I would do wall ball if I didn't have somebody to play with, but I would automatically go play with somebody you ask about that competitiveness. It probably stems from that. We just played. And so the bottom line for parents is club is a fun experience. You need to play the full field game. You would like to be have some level of fun. Yeah. Of of of a good experience good competition Don't depend on your club to develop you Because because there's just not enough time and and also like you talk about touches You know, you might literally, you know your parents you've seen it count count your son's touches in the game You might get 15 of them in a game but but also not all touches are created equal so you can get thousands of touches on the wall But then there's no decision making so we got to find this balance of context Of offense and defense and decision making in situations that are that are small slices of the game and reps That's why these small sided games are so good. It's why box lacrosse players have gotten so good It's a smaller sided game that has a different constraints that allow these players to learn these smaller situations that translate beautifully to the full field game, so Dive into go to the ecological lacrosse podcast that I've been doing lately if you want to learn more about it start digging into this It's a total game changer, and unfortunately, hardly anybody does it.

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera: 6:43

Yeah, I mean, I, I agree a hundred percent there, Jamie, but, you know, working on your skills so that you can pass, catch, shoot and move your feet effectively is something that every player, you know, must get the reps on before, you know, in between practicing, playing with other players, you know, otherwise, a player simply doesn't have the skills they need to be able to not only compete, but to enjoy competing. Enjoy the game. So when I train players, whether it's in person or online, we go through this method of how they'll approach incorporating what they've learned in one-on-one or small group sessions into team practices and games or, and even free play situations. So it goes like this, like they would have a plan of what they're gonna do, whether it's a move or a cut or what have you, and then they'd evaluate right then and there, you know, and this is for something new that they haven't tried before. But they'd evaluate then and there how they did, and then make any needed adjustments the next time they go at it. So until, you know, I tell them until they get that real experience of how this move, or let's say this release point on a shot is going to work in real time in a real situation, they're not gonna really know how it works. So I think everyone would agree that players need both types of play. And as far as wall ball, I mean, I think every player should use. Wall ball the same way and that, you know, they need to get their technical skills better so that way players aren't showing up at practice, let's say, with a terrible offhand, you know, their non-dominant hand, for example, and that they shouldn't be coming to practice to try to work on catching and throwing with their offhand for the very first time in a team practice. Because, you know, that situation is just kind of like a, a drill kill situation, you know?

8:26

Yeah, and as I said, Jay, I don't think Jamie ever thinks about this stuff, really. He just kind of does shit, and he doesn't really put any thought into it, you know. Self organization, dog. Yeah, I gotta, I'm very self organized. I mean, yeah, is that, I gotta, I gotta rethink everything, Jay. I gotta rethink everything. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. Your perception, Ron. Organize yourself. Let's go. Get with it. Now, Neil, you've been coaching some youth lacrosse yourself in your area out in Sun Valley. Out and with Sun Valley lacrosse, rather out in Idaho, and I saw that you're working with seventh and eighth graders. And I think that is just a great age group where they can really start doing stuff. And if kids are taught the right way and taught to dream big, they can really start really accomplishing some things out on the field. So tell us, you know, what your experience has been like and and what your approach has been with these young guys. Yeah. So last year, my son's a now a ninth grader, but I coached the seven, eight team. And we actually worked with Jamie and jam three to start to put some of his strategies into place and it was an incredible experience. We have such raw athletes out in this valley. You just think about them in the mountain sport environment. I think every kid on our team could probably do a backflip on skis, you know, they wheeling into practice on their mountain bikes, but they just haven't had a really good structure. Or commitment to lacrosse. And so there's a few parents, a guy played at Yale, one who played a little bit at Middlebury, and we've been committed to try to make a difference. And so really trying to make it more part of their every day. So making it part of the culture out here and not just kind of the fourth or fifth sport, we try to make it really fun. Try to make it competitive. I mean, you heard Jamie and I talking about everything was a competition. Kids love it. Boys, girls, young and old. If you play for a competition, they want to win and they'll try harder. We also leave them wanting a little bit more so that they want to come back because it was so good. And so it's been this approach that we started to implement last year. I've been coaching over the last six months, actually all ages and all, both genders to really try to bring lacrosse to this Valley. We have some goals that we've put forth that we want to be the best in the state. It's a small, big state, small lacrosse state. And we're starting to do it and it's been an incredible journey so far. We've seen kids who have never played the game before. Improved dramatically just in a few months through touches in the right situation is Jamie highlighted earlier through putting them in situations where they can use the skills that they've acquired to make decisions and learn how to problem solve. And it's been amazing and it is so much fun. We go three times a week, two times a week, depending on the groups. And it's really starting to become part of this Valley and we have big goals to go further. That's awesome. Now, if you're setting up this kind of smaller sided situation so the kids can get more touches, you know, you're out on a field, you know, we've got a lot of coaches who listen to the podcast and parents and kids. So how would they set that up? Like, tell us the setup basically. Yeah, I mean, depending on what we're trying to do, if you look at, you kind of ground everything at a principle of play, right? So if you want to basically just have something around handling pressure. You could start off by breaking into groups of five and do a three on two, keep away in a constrained box, 10 by 10. So a lot of times teams warm up with just doing line drills and that's great. You're throwing and catching and you're moving, but again, you're no pressure. There's no decision making. If you want to work on moving the ball and handling pressure, if you just do a three on two, keep away in a constrained box size. And you can shrink or grow the box depending on skills. And so you set up five of those with your 25 players. If you intercept like monkey in the middle, you switch it out. And so we just do a lot of little things like that. We'll do, we have four, three and a half or four by four goals. We'll set up games where if we want to have the team move the ball more quickly, we'll put a shot clock on. If we want to make sure that they're just working on certain angles or spacing. We'll only allow the team to use one half of the field. So we're constantly just putting in new constraints. And so, and to the point that Jamie mentioned about self organizing, you don't have to micromanage this. You literally bring the kids together with four goals on the field and say, we're playing three on three. And there's a 12 second shot clock, goalie counts it down, go, and you just start with that. And it's pretty incredible how quickly those kids can get it going, particularly when you keep score, you make it competitive and they love it and you can control it and then you can change as needed. And it's been great. I'm sure Jamie has more to add on that as well, but this, we've been using it. We do calls with Jamie, what, two or three times a week we put practice plans together. We review video it's, and it's just so great to see. And then maybe Jamie can come in on this. Do you put together like an offense for these kids? Let's say, like, how would they get some of that free play action going on in an actual game? How would that translate? Well, all of the small sided games and drills like Neil said, are relative to the principles of the game anyways. And so, Handling pressure. He gave a three on two example. Maybe they'll do a four on four or five on five example where there's double teams And they're not and you have to make six passes to be able to like win the rep so That would simulate exactly how you would be able to handle pressure in a game And so if you think about these little three on two games or three on three games if we were to say, all right Well you guys you guys have to and create offense off of this action, then they would go do that and they would learn how to do it. And then we might be like, Hey, and by the way, the defense, you guys have to, you can't switch. No switch. You have to go over. In fact, you can't switch and you have to go over the pick. And then after a while, they begin to learn the parts and pieces of what offense looks like. And, and there's endless ways that you can create smaller sided situations where they get lots of touches. They're getting the IQ in the skill together. The perception and the action coupled together instead of decoupling them, they're together. And, and then in the end, I mean, we haven't really gotten to the point where they're in season yet, but when it comes to being in season, they're going to be able to do stuff relative to the principles of play. Well, so what is the principle of play of running an offense? It's to, it's to, it's to create an advantage. The whole point is to try to create an advantage, right? So you can score a goal. How do you create advantage off the dodge? Well, we'll teach you how to dodge in lots of different ways by doing. 15 different, different types of one on ones. Maybe an offer approach. Maybe in a post op. Maybe with the defense overplaying you. Whatever it is. Maybe with a pick. We'll figure, another way to do it is off a two man game. Another way to do it is off an off ball two man game. Another way is with ball movement and spacing. And by doing all of these constraints in these, in, in 2 on 2, maybe even 5 on 5, it builds up where the kids know how to play. Then you can do whatever you want. Anything will work. But if they don't know how to play, nothing works. We transitioned to, uh, JML. And let's do that. We'll get into a little bit of the mindset. We'll do a mindset minute

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-1: 15:49

Well, today's message is all about mindset in and around how coaches coach, and how players play. Now, I really love what Jamie Monroe has just said in terms of teaching players at team practices, the principles of play, and helping them understand that the objective of lacrosse is for players with the ball to create an advantage. It is the same whether we're talking about the goalies and the defenders clearing the ball or for offensive players going to the goal. So naturally what coaches can do is help players understand these concepts, and there will be more discussed later in this interview and implement them in team practices. So they become natural in game situations and on the offensive end, one standing that advantage, whether it's beating your defender with the ball on your stick, or getting open while off ball by executing a well time cut, or by picking your teammate's, defenders, defender, that is the principle of play, would be geared towards eventually creating an advantage that leads to a high quality shot. So here in Richmond, Virginia, there's something called the Richmond Forum where people gathered to hear a national leader speak about their experiences. And what it was that led to their success. So a few weeks ago, I had the privilege of listening to Coach K of Duke. I had some personal experience with Coach K and that my son went to his basketball camp down in Durham back when my son was 10 and 11 years old. So he'd gone for two years and I don't think I realized it, but back in the nineties, I was a semi Duke hater. Why exactly. I don't know. Perhaps they seemed too perfect. Their hair was always just right. Their shirts well pressed and their collars, well, let's just say they were always up, but as an OG, I realized that was really just silly. Coach K proved to me at his camp that he is a tremendous coach, and as the saying goes, an even better human being. Because each and every day at this camp, it started with Czyzewski greeting all the players as he stood at the cafeteria entrance at 7:00 AM shaking hands, and it didn't end until he finished the evening's film review with all the campers, which would go on until 10 or 11:00 PM. And at those evening meetings along with the film review, he would have a current and a former player speak to the boys, and most of the players would be the rank and file, but at least one superstar per session would appear of the likes of Elton Brand or Bobby Hurley. So for all that, he earned more than earned my respect. Because I can remember when I was in high school, I went to a football camp, Joe Namath football camp, and Broadway, Joe was only there for one day and he literally flew in and out on a helicopter and yes, that really happened. I. So during K Coach K's speech in Richmond, he told many interesting stories from his career and one that was among the most interesting and one that really pertains to exactly what Coach Monroe is speaking of is the story about a timeout during a game. While Shefsky was the head coach of Team USA basketball, at that time, he had Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, and Jason Kidd among other superstars on that team and. They were in a critical time at the end of a close game, and they needed a basket. So Coach K called a timeout and started drawing up a play, and then he felt Kobe Bryant's hand on his hand, and Kobe said, coach, we don't need a play. You can trust us to do as you taught us to do in practice, to work together, take what the defense gives us, and to take the right shot for the team and team USA went out there and did just that. Rest assured, I'm not saying our listeners who are primarily coaches and players at the middle school and high school level need to be right there on par with the dream team of Team USA basketball. But what I am saying is. If coaches and players are geared towards this style of lacrosse that Coach Monroe is talking about, that utilizes the powerful principles of play in their daily approach to the game, that it would become quite natural to have players go out in the final one to two minutes in a game and go into the flow of one of their favorite offensive sets and come up with the win by working together to gain an advantage and generate a really high quality opportunity. And think about the confidence that that would instill in these players, and the teamwork, right? And the working together, cooperation, communication, the whole bag. So interestingly, as I've been watching a large number of. This season's D one lacrosse games. I think that is what many coaches are saying in their timeouts at the end of games, because after those timeouts, the offense doesn't appear to be doing anything scripted. They look like they're getting into the flow of their offense and just letting it rip when the best opportunity presents itself. And that's the way my coach at Brown Dom Staria rolled. He would often say, don't go for the first thing that shows go for the first really good thing that shows and we would just go out and run our offense. So some food for thought I. And certainly something worth considering as the high school, middle school and youth lacrosse seasons are gearing up. Brace yourselves. Here comes a little promo for those who haven't heard our book inside the recruiting Game, insights from College Coaches, which contains top recruiting tips from all time greats, such as Bill Tierney, Lars, Tiffany, and Dom. Staria is available in paperback and on Kindle and can be found on Amazon. Now. We will return to our interview and you will find that interview in progress.

21:37

Hey Neil, I'm wondering, like, as you've you know, started to build this 7 8 program, and you got Jamie working with you, and I can just sense in the body language how much fun you guys are having doing it together. Is there one thing, like, has there been one moment where you're like, oh my god, why wasn't I Learning this way, you know, if you can, you like encapsulate some of those moments you've had where I'm like, you're like, God, this just makes so much sense. Why weren't we doing this? Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest learning. Is we all grew up in an environment of scripted place, right? If the defender does this, then you do that, pass it, cut through, the guy pops. And as soon as the wheels fall off the bus the first time, everything falls apart. And with this 7 8 team, we've seen these kids, as Jamie just mentioned, start to understand how to create an advantage off a one on one, how to set on and off ball picks, and start to create actions. And it's kind of been the biggest aha. And the one that actually the guys love the most, and I've seen the area where they're really starting to put it all together is we'll play a game to five and we'll do battleship scoring. And what that means is you got to score off one off ball, pick, you got to score at least one on an on ball pick. You have to get a give and go, you have to get a quick stick. And so all of a sudden they're starting to put all these things together. And it's not just the same play best Dodger against the worst. defender every time. And it's literally the creativity that these kids are displaying because we're not telling everybody how to do it because the little kid may do it differently from the big kid, right? The fast kid on the slow kid. So everybody's starting to create and we're seeing these brand new boys and girls who have never played before all of a sudden throwing a back backhand pass on a slip because they just know it's there. And I wish, wish I had learned in this style and I'll say, I play with the kids all the time. Just like Rob Hollis. They may call me a hacker, bro, for all I know, it's like the highlight of my week when they're like, we need another one. And I throw my helmet on and jump out there with them. All right, Jamie. Well, thanks so much for joining us, man. Awesome stuff. It was so great being on this podcast. Thank you so much for having me and go Brown state. Always fun. How old are your kids? So my son is now a ninth grader, so I'm actually going to coach the high school team this year. And I've been really lucky because I've, you know, I coached kindergarten. 8, I've done club in Oregon, now Sun Valley. And my daughter started for a couple of years and she was like, no, I'm not playing that game. So, I mean, I guess that does lead to, you know, the question we were going to ask both of you guys, which obviously, you know, you two talked about growing up as little kids playing the game. You, you get to play with your brother and both high school and college. And now, you know, coaching your son, as you said, kind of through kindergarten and your daughter a little bit, and now going to coach them in high school. Like what, what has this sport meant to your family life, you know, from, from your earliest days now to where you're a father. Yeah. I mean, as for both of you guys, it's the same, it's meant everything, right. The best friends in my life are from lacrosse. A lot of them, we all played with together they're friends with my wife and my family now, you know, we, we take vacations and we see each other regularly and then having it kind of being passed down and able to give back. And we talked in openness with like Wayne Curtis and Rob Hollis and these great mentors, you know, maybe someday a kid from Sun Valley, Oregon, we'll talk about Neil Monroe and it's just so great though, to kind of push down the experiences that we've had. And know what this sport has given to us. And, you know, my wife grew up in the Bay area of California. She didn't really even know what lacrosse was. And now she is on the sideline with her gear and cheering really hard. For my son, Mac and so excited to see him just so committed and playing the sport and loving it and having fun. You know, it really means everything. And I mean, no different from any of us, I think that all played together and have had the experiences that we've had good and bad. It's probably one of the biggest highlights of my life is lacrosse and what it's done for me. Awesome. Beautiful. That's awesome. You guys, I, it's, I got to jump. You got to jump. All right. Oh, my calls would be there at 11, 10. All right, Jamie. Well, thanks so much for joining us, man. Awesome stuff. It was so great being on this podcast. Thank you so much for having me and go Brown state. Always fun. All right, Neil. And just as a follow up, you know, we don't want you to get too emotional here, but I'd imagine the game of lacrosse has had a lot to do with your lifelong relationship with your brother, Jamie. And just tell us the effect that lax has had on your guys life. And your relationship together. Yeah. I mean, you heard a lot about it with our competitions when we were younger. Actually, it was more than just lacrosse. It was a little bit of everything, but honestly, the continued interaction and relationship we have today, lacrosse just creates this consistent thread. It's a reason to check in whether it's like, Hey, how did your kids do? You know, did, did Lucy win this weekend against Boston college? I saw Colgate had a big win against you Albany, you know? So whether it's just a text or a quick note. And then obviously working with him with some Valley lacrosse and jm three. I mean, we have two to three zoom calls a week and you know, we probably wouldn't have that interaction. I think before I was really involved with coaching, you know, we could go weeks without connecting. And so it's just an amazing kind of thread of consistency for the relationship, continuing to push. It's really fun. And you guys mentioned Jamie thinks about lacrosse 24 seven. If I want to know something is I'm thinking about, you know, I got four years of high school coaching in front of me. I got this resource that I can pick up and talk to any time. And he is all in, you know, he's like, what do you think? What about this? And then he's sending me clips and videos and it's just, it's really fun to see and seeing his passion. You know, passion is hard. To beat and you can see it with jamie and it's really cool and inspiring Yeah, that's right. My family sees it. He coaches my son a little bit does some video calls with him, which is pretty awesome That's awesome. Beautiful. Love it. And we got steve rosafi couldn't be here today, but he did send us a few questions That would have been awesome. Yeah, well in his absence. We do have his questions if you're game This is, this is where the podcast takes a little different turn. As you can imagine with Steve, it's not, it's not a lot of lacrosse strategy in these questions. Neil, I just want to warn you a little bit about spooky Halloween music that I had to carry around when I think of Drosophila. He used to walk through manholes and climb through sewers in Providence, because that was pretty cool for him. So yeah. Let's see. A roving reporter. His first question was to you, Neil. Tell us about the time you swam to Alcatraz. Was there an issue with not wearing a wetsuit and getting a bit of hypothermia? And based on what you think the prisoners, based on that, what do you think of the prisoners who escaped from Alcatraz? Do you think they could actually survive that swim? Is this a true story? So you, you actually don't try to swim to Alcatraz, Steve. You try to swim from Alcatraz. And I did it with my brother. We actually, I've done it multiple times, but I dragged Jamie into it once. You take a ferry out to the far side of Alcatraz. I did wear a wetsuit for all but one of them. You jump in and then you swim back and it's around a mile and a half. I think it took us, I don't know, 45 minutes, maybe we're not the fastest swimmers, the Monroe brothers, maybe 50. Quite an experience. I did it without a wetsuit. And I think that the, the escapees would have probably froze to death and not been in good enough shape would be my answer to that question because it was cold. I think the bay is like 55 degrees. I didn't have enough insulation warmth on it. My, my fat layers were pretty lean back then. Wow. That's crazy. So that's probably what got him the coldness more than anything else. So I would think it's really the currents because, you know, they also can control this. They're like, we're going to swim at 805 in between the two. Right. And I don't think you have that ability to look at tide charts and go during daylight. Gotcha. Excellent. I mean, I could ask one just off the cuff here. I'm interested, is there anything about Your college experience as a good friend was Sam Jackson. Maybe an interesting experience that is that would, would be allowed to be aired on this podcast. Throw Towers in there too. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. With Tower, with Sam Jackson. I mean, we, we've had plenty of, we've had plenty of towers stories on this podcast, but you know, Sam Jackson I think is a little underrated in his ability to be a part of mayhem. It contributes mightily. That's old Sam though. I think Sam is such like just a quiet, humble guy now. Right. You guys have, I'm looking for old Sam here. What do you think? I'm not looking for Sam, the educator who's really and works with Harlem lacrosse. I'm not looking for that, Sam. You're looking for the other Sam. Yeah. Yeah, the other Sam you know, one of Sam's biggest challenges, I think where Brown is that he he took everything like a hundred meter sprint and he probably should have thought a little bit more of the long game. And so he'd tend to come in things pretty hard and sometimes it would just impact his ability to be able to maintain it through, for example post game parent parties, some other things that you guys have seen, right? You remember when Dom left him in Maryland? Do you guys remember that? Yeah. So I think that was, he was a little bit more in a sprint and he probably should have just recognized the situation and thought a little more marathon approach. Instead of having Dom be in like, close the door and go. Well, you know, your brother had a little bit of a different approach to road trips. I remember I was a freshman, my first, our first game, Jay, at, at the U S military academy and. Your brother, like, picks up his gear from the locker room, doesn't have any other bag or anything, he's like wearing a Hawaiian shirt, and he had a toothbrush, yeah, he had a toothbrush, and I'm like, okay, alright, I guess a change of underwear for Brown Lacrosse is optional for a sleepover. Who wears underwear? Yeah. Jamie was working Dom's camp at Pomfret and I remember Dom was so disappointed because Jamie didn't bring shoes for a five day camp and he'd have to wait outside the cafeteria because he wasn't allowed in until someone came out with a pair of flip flops or shoes that he could borrow. I was like, you're going to be a senior captain. Oh my gosh. That is beautiful. That's the OG. That is. Yep. We've got a question from the Honorable Andrew Towers. Oh boy. He says to ask them about their unique prep for the preseason 4. 2 mile run and how that may have involved and the taco maker. What is that all about? The unique prep. The unique prep was just the fuel that you guys heard us talk about as both Jamie and I wanted to win that. And particularly, I think Andy's referencing that freshman year, I went to bed early the night before the 4 2. My brother being a senior did not, and so he was hurting so bad and I knew it coming up angel. So I just put the hammer down on him because he was based at that point. Yeah. And you know, as I got older, I took a little bit more of Jamie's approach to prepping for the four two, but freshman year I was like, I am going to make my mark and beat my older brother on it. So, but I mean, you know, we all had our, Misery on that four, two run. It was you you're saying last as long as most of ours though. Yeah, I was gonna say some had more misery than others. My, my, my body type was not never considered the opportunity of winning the 4.2 that was never really entered into my consciousness. I remember them being done in like 20 minutes and I'm like, how is that possible? They're like, it's just a six minute mile. Well, Sean Lindsay won. A couple of those guys were so fast. I was definitely off the back of all of them. Yes, sprinting. But there's their approach, and it was a home court for the Monroe bros, so we could practice it over Christmas. I ran that thing freshman year over holiday break. Oh man, Ron and I were jogging, not sprinting, that's for sure. Yeah, no, I was going for the And again, I had to try to find a way on the field guys. Yeah. Your brother, you had to be your brother and be my brother. Tired of that beautiful. Well, thanks so much, Neil. This has just been phenomenal to connect. Yeah. All right, boys. All right, guys. Take care. Until we meet again. Here's to hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the get the lax scoop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.