S2 E40. Breschi Helps a Builder Find his Inner Bear; Brown's New Head Coach Jon Torpey

Get the Lax Scoop: Jon Torpey’s Journey from High Point to Brown

In this very special episode of 'Get the Lax Scoop,' hosts Big Dog and Jaybird welcome Coach Jon Torpey, the new head coach of Brown Men's Lacrosse. The episode details Torpey’s impressive lacrosse journey, starting from his early days in Baltimore, his collegiate coaching stints at Denison, Goucher, Denver, and Dartmouth, eventually leading to his notable achievements at High Point University, where he built a successful lacrosse program from scratch. Coach Torpey shares insights into his coaching philosophy, influences, and the motivations behind his recent transition to Brown University. The episode wraps up with a surprise guest appearance from Joe Breschi, the 2016 National Champion, USILA COY, and current head coach at UNC, who adds to the discussion with his own experiences and reflections.

00:00 Introduction to Get the Lax Scoop
00:23 Meet the Hosts: Big Dawg and Jaybird
01:24 Special Guest: Coach Jon Torpey
04:16 Coach Torpey's Early Lacrosse Journey
07:54 High School Lacrosse at Calvert Hall
13:12 College Lacrosse at Ohio State
21:07 The Importance of Motivation and Commitment
23:27 The Power of Commitment
24:09 Introducing JML Courses
27:23 Coaching Journey: From Ohio State to Denison
33:29 Experiences at Denver and Dartmouth
40:14 Building High Point's Lacrosse Program
43:55 New Beginnings at Brown University
47:23 Special Surprise Guest

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Transcript

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It's time for Get the Lack Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know in the game of lacrosse. We take lack seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join host Big Dog and Jaybird and the biggest names in the game brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lacks IQ training. Ron Doglish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the Sports Foundation. And Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All American midfielder at Brown. He was a captain of the U. S. Junior National Team and is the founder of JML. And joining us in the studio, Steve Grassoffi, whose collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal, Again, start with brought to you by Jay McMahon, lacrosse. That's JML skills, mindset, and lax IQ training, helping the next generation cross players get to the next level. Everyone, welcome to another episode of Get the Lack Scoop. This is a very special episode for Jay and I and for all of those who have Brown lacrosse close to our hearts. And in a moment, you'll find out why. And Jay, would you like to do the introduction? I sure would your role on this podcast. Yes. If you don't mind, Ron, I'll do that. Thank you. Our next guest is the current

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brown men's lacrosse coach.

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After he was invited to take the seat of the esteemed university's Rothman coaching chair in Bay of 2024 prior to arriving in Providence. He was the first ever men's lacrosse coach at high point university in high point, North Carolina. Within only three years of NCA competition, he led the Panthers to the program's first ever berth into the D1 NCA lacrosse tournament in 2015. This achievement was the result of High Point's victory over Richmond, defeating the Spiders in the Sun Conference Championship game. Over the program's first decade of competition, he led High Point to multiple regular season conference titles, two NCAA tournament appearances, and achieved notable regular season wins over top 10 ranked perennial powerhouses such as Duke, UVA, and UNC. Prior to launching High Point's program, he was an associate head coach for five years under head coach Jamie Monroe at Denver. While with the Pioneers, he was the defensive coordinator and helped guide the team to their first ever NCAA tournament appearance in 2006. Then in 2008, he helped the team achieve a number 11 national ranking, its highest ever in program history at that point in time. Also in 2008, under his tutelage, the Pios made the NCAA tournament for only the second time. He was also the associate head coach at Dartmouth for Andy Towers for two years, and was an assistant coach at D3 Goucher College, where he also earned a Master's in Education and Sports Administration. This followed a one year stint at D3 Denison. He graduated with a degree in education from Ohio State University in 2000, where he was a three year captain for the Buckeyes. Over the years, in Columbus, he was a three time Big Ten All Academic Selection, a four year Scholar Athlete Award winner, and as a senior, was named a Street Smith All American Defenseman for his then head coach, Joe Bresci. Who is currently the head coach at UNC. He hails from Baltimore, Maryland, and is a graduate of and played his high school for the Cardinals of Calvert Hall Prep. He and his wife, Teagan, are the proud parents of three children. Please welcome the one, the only, Coach John Torpy. Thanks for having me. Yes. Yes. Coach Torpy. Excited to have you, Coach. Welcome to the pod. Welcome to Brown. Love having you. Excited to be here. Awesome. Hey, John. Jump in, please, and ask the first questions. Our guests are waiting, our listeners, that is. Coach Torpy, as you're getting to know the Brown alums, you'll notice that Jay will be a perennial pain in the ass, okay? Just so you know that. But John, in all seriousness. You know, Jay and I love doing this podcast and just talking with a bunch of people who we've gotten to know in the game and been introduced to in the game. And we always like to start like, you know, Jay goes through that incredible resume of playing and coaching achievement, but all of us started in the game somewhere. And so I would love to hear like, what are your first memories of the game? When did you first start playing? Who were some of the people that were instrumental in getting you involved in the game of lacrosse? That's a great question. I, I, I guess I grew up in Baltimore, so it was all around you, but I came from a family that didn't have any sort of lacrosse background whatsoever. My father was from Jersey city, New Jersey played, you know, the traditional sports, basketball, football, baseball. My mom was from Chelsea, Manhattan. So, you know, not a lot of lacrosse in those areas, but being a kid from Baltimore, it was, again, it was all around you. I remember seeing it. I remember falling in love with it. And I remember like begging my great grandmother for a stick. And I was never able to get one. But my first stick, I always say, came from my father. Both my mother and father worked in a mental institution and there was a patient that was, you know, using it as a weapon. And so my father took it away from the guy, brought it home, gave it to me. And the rest is history. So Use that thing was out every day, you know, throwing it against the wall. You know, it was fortunate enough to be in an area where lacrosse is, it really is considered a hotbed in Baltimore and grew up in the Cockeysville rec program with a lot of other guys that went on to play division one lacrosse. A lot of guys that played, you know, became all Americans. And from there was fortunate enough to go to Calvert Hall was there for four years, went to Ohio state, got a chance to be. But I say is one of the worst players in the history of the pros for seven years and, and got into coaching pretty much, you know, right away right out of college at Denison university and and fell in love with it. I mean, the opportunity to mentor guys, to teach them things, to help them grow, and then to see kind of the skills that you give them and hand off and watch them do that and give those to other people. Became like an obsession, you know, an addiction and I loved every second of it and, you know, haven't thought about, you know, leaving it since. So great, you know, young journey and was fortunate enough to have parents that, you know, gave me the blessing to play the sport and, you know, made the sacrifices that all these parents make to bring their kids to events and take part in it. But just a great ride so far. That's awesome. I think the most unique story we've ever heard of someone's getting their first lacrosse stick, I want to say coach already, already want to know. Exactly. That's impressive. And then let's hear, you know, speaking of the youth program, it made me think of, we had coach Brandon Childs who coaches at. D3 York College. He was claiming he had the best ever, do I remember this? Yes. Like U12 team, and it was pretty, pretty good team. What do you got, Torbjorn? Can you line up like a bunch of, he had a bunch of college players on there. Yeah, I mean, we had a really good junior team. Drop some names. Okay. But I was unfortunately on the junior C team, so. Okay. Feel free, we won't fact check you. A lot of the dads were former players and mine wasn't. So I got cut on the second day. I think they didn't even invite me to the, to the, to the first day. We just showed up at the, at the time when it was going on. So my players are not anybody that would knock your socks off, but you know, there was definitely some good guys in the program at Cockeysville the stretch of like being undefeated for like four years, but my team was not quite the I gotcha. I gotcha. Well, there's always those dad coaches out there that tend to, they love that nepotism, but yeah, moving on from there, as we said, you were playing your high school acts at perennial powerhouse Calvert hall prep. I'm sure dogs loving this. Cause we, we're always talking Long Island lacrosse. It seems like, you know, God, cause that's where the best Maryland guy. Thank the Lord. Let me get back to Mary's kids. So tell us, you know, what that must have been like, must have been pretty amazing, I have to say. And who were some of your big influences at Calvert Hall, in lacrosse, and just in life in general? Yeah, I always say, like, I was, you know, going into my sophomore year in high school I wouldn't say I had, you know, A ton of drive to play at the next level, but I was fortunate enough to play for, you know, it was a legend, Mike Thomas, my junior year at Calvert Hall, who basically sat me down and said, Listen, I think you're good enough to play division one lacrosse, but you know, you got to start hanging around the right people. You got to, you know, make sure that you put academics at the forefront. You got to learn how to work hard. And I always say like that interaction was probably fleeting for Mike, and it was lasting for me. And I think that was an impactful moment for me where I said, man, this is, this is a really cool profession, you know, being able to do this with somebody and being able to have this kind of impact in someone's life. And it was really from that. on that. I said, this is something that I want to do with the rest of my life. So I knew my junior year in high school that this is something that I wanted to do. And then Mike ended up leaving you know, after my junior year, it was a heartbreaking minute of blues. And I think the St. Mary's and in the quarterfinals. And I remember the bus, I remember the bus the bus ride home from good old Weems whaling field. And, and Mike, it's in the locker room beforehand. Like this is this is the last year I'm coaching and just like an emotional wreck. Brian Kelly comes in. Right. you know, ends up becoming not only an amazing coach at Calvert Hall, but one of my best friends and one of my mentors. And I just I loved every second of of that school. I thought, you know, the grittiness of Calvert Hall, you know where it is, the kind of people that it attracts the friends I still have from that place. The teams that we had, you know, weren't the Calvert Hall teams of probably the last 15 years. They were you know, not the best players, but a group of guys that was assembled you know, before I think the M. I. A. Became a league that really heavily recruited and, and we always had this kind of chip on our shoulder and it was, it was neat to be a part of that. And kind of the same path I've had my whole life. We had a couple wins that we probably shouldn't have had. And, and you know, you get it again, you get addicted to that feeling and you want to carry that on with you through, you know, the rest of the journey. So a lot, a lot of great times at Calvert Hall. That's awesome. Doug. Wasn't that, wasn't that Weems Whaling Field, a hell of a facility down there? I mean, that was we brought you down behind the garbage dump. They're at St. Mary's. It's a very high end facility. Yeah. A lot of a lot of ACLs career ending corners. Yeah. It was, it was not the best of fields. I will say. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So you mentioned Brian Kelly. I know him. I played with him on the U 19 Team USA team. Yeah. Way back when. Great guy. So what was it like having like, it sounded like the other coach was like really well established. And VK was probably, he graduated high school or college in 91, so he's only five years out. Yeah. Yeah. So that must have been pretty interesting having that new young blood in there. It was, I mean, you know, Mike Thomas was you know, one coach. Then we had one other assistant and then, you know, BK takes over my senior year and it was cool because he brought in, you know, all these young guys that were kind of the top players of the day. You know, come to practice and, and, you know, I don't know if it was legal or not, but they would practice with us and against us. And just, it just like, it made you, you know, so much better just with the talent that you were forced to go up against. And, Brian was, You know, just always a good person. he was you know, a coach at Calvert hall before he took over the varsity for Mike Thomas. I think he was an assistant for him and then he was a JV head coach and definitely like tested his metal early with with some of the other jobs that he had there, but just a terrific human being and just well loved by, I think everybody that's ever gone through that program. Right. And he's been there ever since. It's amazing. Said quite a run. That's great. We see that Ron, that you 19 team coincidence, Ron claims. I bring it up every time, but there's always a connection. It's amazing. I was just 77 episodes in. We just, we just checked off an annual and every dog hates it. What he did like 38 years ago was was was Williams whaling on the bingo card because we got that one out of the way too. We did. Nice. Nice. By the way, that was a nice throw to me, a St. Mary's win over Calvert Hall. That was because, you know, it was interesting. I think Calvert Hall and St. Mary's coach had a similar perspective that we were, we were, we tried to be a little grittier than those other blue, blue blood Baltimore programs, you know, a little tougher. Us and St. Joe, we were all like, man, it's like Brown state, baby. I like that mentality. Hey coach, let's flash forward. You know, now it's, it's obviously the Big Ten is an incredibly competitive College of Cross Conference, but back when you were going out, that was not, I don't think a common pathway to go from Baltimore necessarily the Big Ten. And obviously you chose Ohio State and And they had a new young head coach, Joe Brescia, I think back then. And so tell us about that path from Calvert Hall to Ohio state. And I think for coach, it might've been a different coach and then Brescia came in after, but I think so. Yeah, I'm sure he would have answered that Jay without, well, Ron, you know, someone did their homework. I'd like to let people know that much. It's kind of a good segue because I tell the guys here, you know, you get a lot of relatability and you build a lot of empathy based on your past experiences. And, you know, having gone through a coaching change my freshman year at Ohio State and, you know, thinking about, do I want to be here? Do I want to play at this place? You know, do I want to go explore some other options? You know, I was very fortunate to have not only Joe Bresci, but Jay Stalford and Craig Cahoon come in and our staff and they just added, you know, an element of competitiveness. And you know, resilience and just, you know, character work ethic, like all the things they valued were things that, you know, we were all looking for. And so it was neat to be a part of that. And just the journey to Ohio state, you know, I had some other opportunities. There were some things that, you know, I really wanted to explore and, and I found myself not so much loving the actual school, but loving the staff that was there because I knew that coaching was going to be a path that I wanted to explore. And, you know, the first kind of school I fell in love with was Loyola college because Chris Colbeck was the assistant there. I remember Chris from camps. He's a Calvert Hall guy. And I remember him being, you know, a guy who literally I don't know what it was, but I didn't get invited to 205. You know, he reached out and said, listen, man, there's a kid that didn't show up. If you want to come over, don't even worry about paying. Just, you know, you can come over and be a part of this camp. And it's great. I went over there and was just like, man, this guy is such a terrific human being. And, and that summer he ended up leaving Loyola to go to Hofstra. And, you know, my family from New York you know, I said that would be great. So he reached out to me and, and we met up at the old Bellock diner and in Towson, Maryland. It was, I think the first day of school at Calvert Hall my junior year, my junior year senior, I think I was senior year actually. And I was like, I'm going to Hofstra to play for this guy. This is exactly my coach. And when I went back, well, you know, got a little bit of money, but my parents were like, this is not where you're going to go to school. So we looked at some other things. My brother was at Penn state, wasn't playing lacrosse, but he you know, going to a big school, I said, this could be a cool opportunity too. And, you know, it all kind of worked out with Ohio state. And I'll never forget. I went out there, not with the intent to commit. But I had gone out during the blizzard in 96 and got snowed in there for six days on my official visit with another kid. Oh my god! Holy cow! Yeah, and I was like, I can't stand this place. So I went out there a second time. With the intent to just show my father the facilities, the athletic facilities is it really are like second to none out there. And my mom goes, I'm going with you. And so at one point, the Paul Caldwell, who's the head coach there, you know, came up to us and said, you know, what are you thinking? And I had no intent of going. Going to Ohio state whatsoever. And I said, listen, I didn't drive six and a half hours of seeing indoor football field. And so on the spot, she's like, what are you going to do? I go, I guess, I guess I'm going to Ohio state. And that was it. And I always say, it's the best decision I never made. So Oh my gosh, that's classic. Incredible. And Chris Colbeck was on that U 19 team USA team as well. I know him. He's a great guy. We had him on the show. Did somebody prep you, John? I mean, did you get This is wonderful. Actually, Chris Off to such a great Chris is a great guy. He was just on our podcast with Dave Murphy a couple of episodes ago and Mike Murphy, yeah. I mean, Mike Murphy, sorry. And he he was close to some guys I played with at His roommate at Loyola was a teammate of mine at St. Mary's. So, you know, small world stuff. And then of course he coached with Dom for all those years and we got to know him well then. So, so so you, you mentioned why you didn't start with Joe then, as you said, Joe and, and Jay Stafford, another Brown guy come out there. And, and so what was that those next three years like, and, and what did you learn playing for, for Joe? Yeah, I mean it was hard. I mean, Joe was going to do whatever he could to make sure that the right people were there. We didn't have any passengers on board. And I think the guys that really wanted it loved them. And I think the guys that were there for, you know, other reasons loathe them. And I loved, you know, having him as a coach again, competitive. brought in some great guys. You know, every year you knew you were gonna be challenged by the guys that were coming in. And you know, Joe was kind of the figurehead. He kind of ran, you know, a lot of the aspects of the game. But J was really, you know, our defensive coordinator, Jay Stalford. And I always say I actually Texted J. One of the cool things about coming back here was reconnecting with a lot of guys that I know that are brown guys, and I remember texting him just a couple weeks ago and just saying, you know, like, if I didn't ever tell you this you were one of the most influential people in my life in terms of, you know, the quality of coach you were and more importantly, the quality of human being that you were. And it's an honor taking the field, you know, for you. And if you know, Jay Stolfer, I mean, he is just the first class human being incredibly detail oriented, unbelievable work ethic and all that stuff bled into the guys that played for him. And it was cool having, you know, those two guys and, and Craig Cahoon was the, was the third guy who was, you know, fantastic player from Ohio, played at Butler, you know, played a couple of years in the MLL and, you know, all three of those guys just had such an energy, such a passion. And you know, we're not going to accept anything but your very best every single day, which was exactly what I was looking for. Right. That's awesome. Yeah. And just one more question on Ohio State, you know, Ron and I and Steve like to consider Brown as having a very rich athletic history, but maybe not as rich as the Ohio State University. So like, you know, just as a sports fan, what was it like being there? I mean, football games, basketball games, what are like some of Fonder's memories on that from that end of it. Yeah. I mean, just like, you know, we used to work at a French field house. And right when you walk in there, you look on the records board, it's an indoor track facility. And, you know, you see Jesse Owens name numerous times somebody like that. You're just like, wow. You walk through kind of the annals of St. John's arena. And, you know, you're looking at, you know, You know, some of the all time greats that have ever played the sport of basketball. You're looking at, you know, football players that you didn't even realize went to school there. You know, you're, in the presence of guys all the time at the Woody Hayes athletic facility. I remember like Chris Spielman coming to practices and seeing guys like Chris Carter, right. Jack Nicholas, you know, just like these, these all time athletes just always around. You know, it's hard not to work hard and hard not to want to be elite when, you know, that's just always, you know, around you. So, you know, vividly like working out and seeing Eddie George, in the room next to us working out when he was at the height of his, you know, NFL career. And the guy had muscles on top of muscles and, you know, you're sitting there thinking you're there and the guy goes up and you're like, Oh my God, man, I got so much further to go. But yeah, just such a cool place, more facility perspective, history. Man, I don't think I missed a football game in four years. And, and it just took part in everything that that place had to offer. Right. That's amazing. We transitioned to JML and let's do that. We'll get into a little bit of the mindset. We'll do a mindset minute here

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The following piece comes from a course. I took from sports performance expert, Brian Kane, in which he taught coaches how to help athletes with their meltable Formance both on and off the field. And we share that information with our in-person and online training with Jane McMahon lacrosse. Today's message is about something that's key to becoming the best version of yourself

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That is two key ingredients that will help you accomplish anything, both on and off the field. And that is motivation and commitment. It's easy to get motivated when you're inspired. It's exciting to train hard, hit the wall or watch game film. Maybe you're motivated by a big goal, like making varsity or earning a starting spot. Or by seeing the success of your favorite lacrosse players. Motivation gets you going. But what happens when motivation fades? That's where commitment comes in. Commitment is what helps you keep going. Even when things get tough, it's about showing up. Doing the work and staying focused on your goals, even on the days when you don't feel like it. Here's how the combination of motivation and commitment can help you accomplish anything.

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There's an old saying, it's the start that stops. Most people. So you can build a strong vision. Build something compelling, something exciting, something that motivates you. And that will get you over that hurdle of getting the ball rolling.

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Motivation gets you the start, but commitment. Make sure you finish when you're motivated, you're ready to go after your dreams. But the real question is, are you committed to those dreams when challenges arise? When you're tired facing adversity or not seeing immediate results. Commitment. Is what pushes you forward? Motivation is about being inspired, but commitment is about being consistent. It's easy to feel pumped up after a win. But the players who succeed are the ones who show up consistently, whether they feel motivated or not being committed means showing up to practice, doing extra reps and taking care of your body. Even on the hard days. Motivation comes and goes, but commitment stays strong. There will always be days when you don't feel motivated. It happens to everyone. But commitment is what helps you push through those tough moments. It's that inner drive that says I'm going to keep working no matter what. So ask yourself, how committed are you to your goals? Your commitment has to be bigger than any feeling of, I don't feel like it. Motivation is great, but it won't carry you the whole way. Real growth happens when you're committed to showing up and putting in the work, especially when things don't go perfectly. Success comes to those who stay committed through adversity. Your commitment has got to be greater than any resistance. To getting out there and getting on the field. Decide and make the commitment to achieve your goals. That's half the battle. Now we will hear a word from our sponsor. JML.

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Folks, what

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PLL and NLL all-star Zed Williams has described

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In our previous episode.

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is exactly why myself and Coaches Lars Tiffany and Kip Turner created the JML Courses. Because so many players out there, so many that I have coached, that coaches Tiffany and Turner, have come into contact with, are so close to getting what they need, but are not close enough. Players do need to play for a competitive club team and a high school, but that's not all. As highly successful coaches said, Players also need the skills, mindset, and lax IQ training that's going to elevate their game and take them to the next level.

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And as ed Williams said, it took him years to figure out just what he needed to become successful. We've taken all that we have learned over the past 30 plus years and honed it down. Into manageable training sessions. So you can literally compress time

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so I urge all parents and players out there to invest in themselves. You're putting a lot of money into these clubs. Take a real small fraction of that and put it towards these skills, mindset, and lax IQ training that we have to offer. There's live coaching support on the platform along with the pre recorded sessions. And we have a community of like minded individuals who are taking the journey with you and who can help you be accountable and get the most out of the process. You can do the training at any time you'd like. We do advise though, that you follow the weekly workouts and then repeat that three to four times per week. This is for attackmen, long poles and goalies. Now you'll hear a little more about our offer. The best time of year to improve your game. And that's why we are making this special offer. So jump on it now because it won't last for long. Simply download the free version of the Jane McMahon lacrosse app. Or just follow the link that's listed in the show notes. And you will see the coupon code noted for each different course. Speaking of no guardrails that so many of our listeners describe the college lacrosse recruiting trail. So we've responded by putting excerpts of our 10 best interviews with legendary coaches, such as bill Tierney, Lars, Tiffany and Andy towers. Into a book that you can access for free on our JML app. Simply download the J McMahon lacrosse app at the apple app store or at Google play for Android and check it out. And for those. Who would like a book in their hands? Or on their Kindle, it is available on Amazon, under the title inside the recruiting game insights from college lacrosse coaches. And due to popular demand, we have put together a Patrion page for the show. This will allow those interested in supporting our efforts to do just that and to get exclusive access to unedited interviews. Big discounts on the JML online courses and merchandise from our new online store go ahead and check out the links in today's show notes. We're excited to get back to our interview and you will find that interview

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In progress.

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Now, upon graduation from Ohio state you went, looked like you went right into the coaching profession. And as you mentioned, your high school coach had a big impact and who else influenced you in that regard? And was it from day one in college? You were thinking, all right, I'm, I'm definitely going to be a college. Yeah, I was, you know, and I was fortunate to have parents that were like supportive of, you know, whatever I wanted to do. And I remember, you know, orientation at Ohio State going into my freshman year and, you know, seeing the course, the courses that were offered and the majors that were offered. And there was kind of a coaching concentration within the education, school. And I said, that's exactly what I want to do. And kind of put my mind to it. And there was some great classes. I mean, there were classes where you were coaching the class mic'd up and then you would watch it with the rest of the class. You'd break things down, you know, what you, what you did well, what you said, well, how, how well you gave the information to kids. There were classes where, you know, you had to put practice plans together and you were teaching you know, we had one with autistic kids. We had another one where, you know, we had to teach like wheelchair basketball to, you know, disabled kid. I mean, it was just like everything about it was was intensive and it kind of built into kind of who you were. Most of who I am as a coach was, was influenced by the guys that I was fortunate enough to play for. you know, work with. And I mean, I feel like my journey is such a blessing between having like my father as a coach when I was a kid in different sports to, you know, being able to have guys like Brian Kelly and Mike Thomas and Joe Bresci and Jay Stolfert and, you know, Mike Caravan, Kyle Hannon. I mean, you know, Jamie Andy, I mean, you name it. I've been around these amazing, you know, just human beings and coaches and and I've tried to steal everything I could from each of those guys along the journey. That's right. And that's right. We know Mike Caravan. He was actually at Brown when Ron and I were being recruited and then moved down to Virginia. But, you know, I've seen him over the years and stayed in touch. And yeah, he's another another gem. Yeah. I mean, John, you just alluded to it like it's. I don't, I can't imagine a guy whose journey has prepared him better. And like, you've seen so many different aspects of the game and like, we wanted to explore next. You just mentioned Mike Caravana and I know you were with him at Denison. And then you also spent some time at, at Goucher. So you started at that division three level. Tell us about those early years in coaching at that level. I mean, I'll start with Denison. I just like fell in love with it. I was actually slated to be coach fresh volunteer assistant before that was really even a position, but, but I said, coach, I want to stay in coaching. I've got a couple of classes I'm finishing up my fifth year. And he said, we'd love to have you on board. And then my caravan had called and said, listen, I'll give you 5, 000 to come over to Denison and do this over here. I think we've got a really good team. And at the time I was playing with the Columbus land sharks, the NLL. I was working at flying pizza in the afternoon. I was making graders ice cream in the morning at 4 30 and then we practice. I'm not kidding. You would practice from 10 p. m. to 12 a. m. at Denison because the only time we get the indoor facility and it was just these days that started with making ice cream at, you know, 4 30 in the morning, five o'clock in the morning, whatever that is until, you know, going to Denison at night. And I tell you what, man, you look back on it and I'm sure we can all say this, those first couple of jobs you have at a college, you know, the lean years are the ones that you really figure out how much you love this thing. And the ones that you, you reference back to all the time as to why you do this and how much you love this, but division three for me was a chance for. You know, me not to be kind of the cool guy on the block and have to figure out a way to get these kids to be interested in the school maybe they had never heard of or didn't know where it was geographically. And you really had to, you know, put your hands on the ground in terms of finding guys. You had to go to these obscure events. You had to break away from some of your friends that were events that were maybe already in Division I lacrosse. And, you know, You know, find these diamonds in the rough and you know, it was not to make three phone calls, get three kids. It was make 3000 calls to maybe get a kid to visit. So a lot of doors slammed in your face and, and a lot of nose before you got a yes. And when you got that, yes, you were like, Oh my gosh, this is awesome. So, you know, being where I am now you know, and making a phone call with the power that this place has from an educational standpoint to the history, to the facilities, to the support. It's a long ways away from, you know, where the phone calls were at Denison and Goucher. That's amazing. What a journey. Love the ice cream in the late nights at Denison. I love that. I mean, that's great. That is, you gotta, you gotta love it, right? You gotta love it in those years. I'll tell you like a funny story. While I was working at Grader's Oprah Winfrey used to do this thing where she like talked about her favorite things. I don't know if she still does, but she said that like Grader's ice cream was her favorite ice cream. So We went from having to make like three, you know, whatever they were 10 gallons a day to making like 15 and everybody was trying to quote, so. Oprah. Oprah, that's hilarious. So, I mean, John, it's also funny. We've all, we've already, you know, made those common connections in the game and then you're off to another one, right? You, you you have that Ivy league experience working with our friend, Andy towers, who, I don't know if it's possible, but did he have more energy back then as a younger guy? So, you know, what was that like working with Andy and that first division one experience and also an Ivy league. Experience and trying to, you know, have, I mean, you guys had some, Andy had some good success there at Dartmouth and, and, you know, which was not obviously always the case. So, I mean, you can tell us certain things about working with Andy Towers. We'll just say we understand the full spectrum, but whatever you'd like to say about your Dartmouth experience and AT back then. Yeah. Well, I'll talk about Denver first. That was actually my first D1. Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. So. I was just so excited to get to a place that had had some success and to be around a guy like Jamie. That was this like young up and coming like innovator kind of always been the overall like master of skill development. And I'm telling you, I became a great lacrosse coach, you know, working with Jamie because he demanded the best out of everyone around him. And his approach to the game was. Always evolving. Like, how can we figure this out? How can we figure this out? And what I loved about being on Jamie's staff was not only was he an innovator, but everything was collaborative. It was, you know, what can we do defensively? What can we do offensively? What can we do here? And it was just this constant challenge of. How can we be a better version of what we were, you know, yesterday. And I just, I loved every second of being out in Denver with him. And, and I think people think Denver, you know, you're out there skiing and enjoying the outdoor life. And I don't think there was ever a day that I wasn't in the office until like nine o'clock at night, you know, sitting there talking X's and O's figuring things out. I think I only went skiing one time because my wife dragged me up there in five years, but it was the masterclass and like, You know how to develop as a coach. And then, you know, I was fortunate enough to go work with Andy for two years. And I, I loved Andy towers, man. I mean, I, I just I remember after my first year, I got offered an opportunity to go to another school in the Ivy league and I said to my wife, I go, I love this place so much. I love this guy so much that I don't know if I ever want to leave, you know, it was just, Like you said, energy, passion. He was giving me a lot of leeway to kind of do some different things and be bold and be unique in terms of what we're doing defensively. And again, another collaborative guy from a recruiting perspective, a development of developmental perspective, scheme perspective. And you know, Andy was the first guy that I'd ever met in coaching that Wanted to get his guys jobs and I'd never witnessed anything like that in my previous stops. And I saw the relationship that that built with guys that were there was so beyond just the four years and Andy would do such an amazing job of, of helping a guy get introduced to someone and that we would celebrate it like a win. And these kids would like do anything for Andy. I mean, Andy, like Andy has this gift of being able to get people to follow him to like the fire gates of hell, man. I mean, they will go anywhere with that guy and he's a magnet. I was right on board, man. I was like, this is, this is phenomenal. And then. You know, it was, it was, it was almost tough for me to leave Dartmouth, even go start the program at high point. Cause I was like, man you know, it's just so much fun working with this guy. And I feel like we're, we're, we're getting to a really good place up here. Right now I can see the connection, you know, when you're at Denver. From Jamie to Andy at Dartmouth, what was, how did you get out to Denver? Well, I'm glad to know Kyle Hannon, our head coach another like innovator. And I always said like, Kyle is one of these guys who could take any six guys and put them on a field offensively and make them kind of work really well together. And I think Jamie's Kind of individual development and Kyle's kind of team development. Both of those guys really hit it off. And I think, you know, having played against Jamie at Ohio state, when he was at Denver, he kind of knew of me there. And so it was like one of these, like, I think Jamie came to visit Kyle one time. We sat there, talked X's and O's for like five hours. And then afterwards, Jamie's like, you want to play one on one basketball to a hundred in the gym and gouge sounds like it was like 115 degrees. Nowhere before probably hadn't been mopped in 10 years and playing this game where, and he won't admit to this man. I know he won't, but it was like 99 to 98. And he went down for the game winning layup by two hand, push him. He missed the shot. I get it. He had to go the other way and score and like. He wouldn't talk to me and I wouldn't talk to him, but it was like part of this like beautiful relationship between us. Hilarious. Oh my God. And Jamie was not a tactician in college, Ron and I can tell you that. And it's just, he is an incredible tactician because I've seen a lot of his stuff online and he is so, it's just like a total reversal on his personality except the game to 100 in basketball. He was like that in college. Right? Doug. Yeah. No question. He was always. I mean, he and Andy both, and I would say like those two guys, like the way they think about the game, it's just nonstop and they're, and they're different and they're obviously approaches and style, but God bless, like. You really do feel like you know, you're back in kindergarten when those two guys start talking lacrosse. It's pretty amazing. Yeah, they were awesome, man. It's, it, it must be kind of like this Brown thing must be kind of a crazy full circle thing for you to coach. Like when you talk about being with brash, who was, you know, Here with Jay, Jay, and then Jay Stauffer, you know, who's an incredible, as you said, player coach and human being, and then working with Jamie and Andy. And I mean, it's, it's weird how life works, you know, and all those Brown connections you made along the way. Well, what's what's wild is, you know, over the last 14 years at high point because we were doing some, you know, really unique things in terms of winning and and success, our guys were having off the field and on the field. There's been a lot of opportunities, you know, to look at some different places and I always told my wife, like, I'm not leaving campus unless it's something I feel like I could really, you know be passionate about. And this was the first time in 14 years, there's probably been about 10 or 12 schools that I've had conversations with in terms of interest. But this is the first time in 14 years I ever left campus from high point. And I knew if I did that, it would be really hard to say no, but it was all because of all these Brown connections, you know, from guys that I played with at Calvert hall to guys that coached me, like you said you know, to guys that I got into coaching with, with, you know, my caravan and Andy and Jamie, and, you know, getting to hear stories about guys like you. And, you know, some of these guys that, you know, were in their lives that I would, you know, kind of cross paths with. And there was just this. Familiarity with this place that I felt some comfort with. And you know, after meeting with grace, it was just, I go, yeah, this is kind of too good to be true. You know, this is something that I got to really explore. So yeah, it was definitely full circle in the stars. Yeah. And coach, we don't want to skip over that little high point thing, you know, they don't even have a team. Right. And it wasn't like they had anything. I don't think. Right. No club or anything. Cause I mean, you know, after all the work you did and now you're, you know, building your own division one program and having the success that you did. So out of nothing, you know, talk about, yeah, talk about that journey and you know, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You go from nothing in the middle of nowhere to, you know, you were a guy who every time one of those, those big ACC powerhouses was playing high point, you always were kind of checking that score. You would find a way to get those guys not, not too irregularly. Yeah. Yeah, so I don't know much about high point. I got a call from a friend of mine who is the head soccer coach at Denver when I was out there, Bobby Muse, who's now the head soccer coach at Wake Forest. And he goes, listen, high point starting men's lacrosse. It's going to be this division one startup program. There really hadn't been anything like that. I think since Since St. John's when Ricky Soule, you know, left Dartmouth to go there. I said, that's cool, man. And he said, I know the athletic director, if you want me to call him, you know, I'd be happy to. I was like, sure. You know, I'll take a look. I'm, you know, I've always wanted to be a head coach. So he called athletic director, Craig Keilitz on the phone with Craig and ended up talking to him, talking to him for about an hour, went down there and just fell in love with North Carolina, fell in love with the school, fell in love with the vision the president and our athletic director had for the program. And I said, what a, what a cool way to get into college coaching, starting your own program from scratch. And so I get down there, there's no office. There's no locker room, there's no uniforms, there's no players, there's no anything. And it was this like, kind of choose your vision. It was, it was, it was a vision and it was trying to sell that vision to kids that were kind of like me, you know, where they had this like builder gene and they were just like, I want to, I want to do something. I want to be a part of something new. And, and we just, You know, didn't let anybody write our script. We went down there and said, this is who we're going to be. And we had a lot of bravado and we recruited kids with that. And I'll never forget, like the first time I showed the guys our schedule, the first ever season we had powerhouses on there. Delaware Brown was on there Duke Carolina, Virginia, I mean, everybody. And, and I go to the team. I said, you know, what do you think we're going to do this year? And every single guy's like, easy, 10 wins, easy, 10 wins. And I was like, Oh my God, we went into this we went into this first season with 34 of our 36 guys being freshmen and two transfers that had really never played at the schools that they came from. And first game we play Delaware, Delaware, you know, coming off two years, I think after they were in the quarterfinals, we ended up losing by two. And then. Second game play Towson, who's ranked, I mean, to beat them nine, seven, you know, these guys just never let anyone write their script. They were like, this is what we're going to be. This is how we're going to get there. And to see them buy in and work and see the foundation, those first couple of classes laid was just, I mean, one of the coolest things I've ever been associated with in my life. And it always gives me hope. I mean, like, I'm like, don't let people tell us what we're going to be. Let's go out and figure out a way to get where we want to get to. So. That's amazing. Amazing. And, you know, raised our kids there and, and you know, fell in love with everybody I worked with the parents, the kids. I mean, there was a, such a cool connection with all of us there with building this thing from scratch. That's awesome. Amazing. So John, as we all know, you were named the head coach of Brownmans Lacks this summer. So please tell us how that opportunity came about and as you said you'd been at High Point and for so many years and had such great success there and it was really your baby. You started that whole thing. So it couldn't have been an easy decision. But tell us, tell us about that process. Yeah, it was, it was a phone call that I got asking if I'd be interested and, you know, I kind of got off the phone call and went and spoke to my wife and I go, what do you think about, you know, looking into brown? And she goes, listen, I'll go wherever you want if you feel like it's a great opportunity. So pursued it got on the phone with Grace, Tim Fitzpatrick. You know, Darren Lowe was involved in the process, got a chance to talk to him a little bit and, you know, talk to a bunch of, you know, people that I knew that had been at, at Brown. You know, I kind of bounced some things off of Jamie, bounce some things off of Andy spoke to Joe Braschi about it. And there were like two, like real, like vivid things that stood out to me, you know, when I went through the process and, you know, contemplated leaving this place that I had a love affair with, with high point having, you know, built everything, you know, with our staff, with our guys, you know, from nothing. And it was a conversation I had with coach Bresci where he said, you know, when I was Carolina and leaving Ohio state. I was walking through the hallway at Woody Hayes and I ran into Jim Trestle and, you know, he said every 12 to 14 years, you got to think about, you know, doing something different, taking on a new challenge and, and, you know, going after something and reinventing yourself. And so that was like vivid in my mind. And then it was this like little chapter of a book that I read on Woody Hayes one time where You know, he gets to Ohio state and he's in his first press conference and people think he's crazy for taking the job. And, and he says something along the lines of like, you know, I'm leaving security for opportunity and, you know, that's just playing in my mind. So. Got a chance to come up here. You know, got a chance to meet with grace and a bunch of other administrators and, you know, see the facilities and, and kind of came back home, talked to my wife, went back and forth for probably three days. And I remember telling my staff at high point, I'm not, I'm not going, I'm staying at high point. And then grace called me again. And I said, grace, like just, I love like talking to grace because it just felt like, you know, I was in the presence of an athletic director that just wanted to win and do things the right way. And, and it was, was successful kind of everywhere she had been. And I just said to my wife, I go, I think we should go up there together and take a look. And we came up here and I remember walking through the doors of the Pizza Tola center saying like, I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if I can leave my guys at high point. I don't know if, if this is what I want to do. And I remember my wife saying something along the lines of like, this is, you know, one of the first opportunities you've ever had where, you know, they're doing everything the right way and I think you deserve it. And I remember like kind of taking a step back and I said, let's go upstairs and let's take this thing, you know? And so. That was, that was just a really cool day. And it's been, you know, this incredible whirlwind, but all positive sense where, you know, getting to know the alums, getting to know our guys, you know, getting to really, you know, get to know who they are as people and players and bringing my staff up here for the most part with me it's been, it's been a lot of fun. That's amazing. Well, you know what? We've got a, do we have a, do we have a special surprise guests that wait a minute? I think we do on zoom. It just popped in. Who is this? Someone you might know who is, is, I think is that, could it be, could it be look at, look at them. Coach. I just said all these nice things about you, man. I hope you were listening. McMahon wouldn't let me get on early so I could listen. He was giving us a great answer. It's all about the airtime, Joe. I'm like, Oh no, Joe's here, but we're in the, we're like getting a great answer here. I'm like, all right, hopefully he stays on. Love fest, man. All the same. So Joe, Joe, Joe, nobody knows who's listening to this. This is a, this is an audio. Oh, Ron, when you do the intro, please. So John, as we may have just given away, we we've got a very special surprise. Mr. A guest for you

MacBook Pro Microphone: 48:30

Yes indeed. We do rainbow. Please tune in next week to hear from ACC and U S I L a coach of the year, Joe brushy of the university of North Carolina.

48:42

Here's to hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the get the lax scoop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.