S2 E32. North Meets South: NLL All-Time Great Chris Panos & 2X NCAA Champ Bob Tarring, Part II.

In this engaging episode of Get the Lax Scoop, hosts Big Dog and Jaybird bring together lacrosse legends Chris Panos and Bob Tarring. Bob shares his pivotal role in developing indoor lacrosse in the U.S., including the challenges and successes of starting indoor leagues and the significant USA vs. Canada series. Chris Panos reflects on his illustrious career, from his early exposure to box lacrosse to becoming one of the top 20 American indoor players, his experiences with Team USA, and his current role as the head coach of the Greek National Indoor Team. Additionally, the episode covers valuable lacrosse training tips, the importance of skill development, and special offers for lacrosse enthusiasts.

00:00 Introduction to Lax Scoop Podcast

00:23 Meet the Hosts: Big Dog and Jaybird

01:02 Interview with Lacrosse Legends: Chris Panos and Bob Tarring

01:27 The Roller Skates Experiment

03:31 Building the Super Series

06:59 The Rise of the National Lacrosse League

07:50 Chris Panos' Professional Journey

13:33 Team USA Indoor Lacrosse Experience

16:27 Coaching the Greek National Team

19:41 Lacrosse Skills Development for Young Players

25:12 JML Online Training Courses

28:29 Conclusion and Farewell

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Transcript

Jay: 0:00

It's time for get the La Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know. In the game of lacrosse, we take LAX seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join hosts, big Dog and Jaybird, and the biggest names in the game. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Ron Doish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the sports found. and Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All-American Midfielder Brown. He was a captain of the US Junior National team and is the founder of J M L. And joining us in the studio, Steve gfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Helping the next generation cross players. Get to the next level.

0:59

Hello everyone. And welcome back to the show. This is the second installment of our three part interview series with three time team USA member and indoor lacrosse all time. Great, Chris Panos. And two time NCAA champion, coach Bob tearing. This dynamic duo. I have joined forces act fork, union, military academy to launch this illustrious schools. PG lacrosse program. Now you will find our interview in progress. No, Bob. Interesting tie in with the indoor game because back in the early eighties, you know, you were really instrumental in getting some indoor lacrosse going in the U. S. And from what I heard initially, it was like a USA versus Canada series that got started. But right off the bat, they wanted the players on on roller skates. Right. And they were like, and when, as far as having a tryout, everyone's on roller skates, playing lacrosse, right? Didn't that happen? I can't believe about that. You looked at it, not one of my favorite coaching situations on a couple of the marketing guys from the Kansas city chiefs. Evidently had seen box lacrosse. I had just left the U. S lacrosse or lacrosse Foundation, which is now USA lacrosse and a guy named Ira Blumenthal, who I knew who played a thousand approached me and said, Look, these guys are looking to organize some kind of an indoor game with lacrosse. Would you be interested? I said, Well, yeah, why not? Let's look at it. Well, I had a meeting with them in Kansas City and came back and They wanted to do roller cross because roller something at roller derby. Never, ever even knew that I did roller derby. I had my hands when they called me and told me it was a killer. They called him. I had, I got a bunch of guys together. We rented a roller rink and hockey players like Doug rate of ball and a few others that could skate. And I, we went through one practice. And I finally, I just said, okay, guys, thank you. And I called Chris back in Kansas City and say, Chris, thanks for the opportunity, but this is not where we're going to go here. So I went back out and sat and talked and they said, well, it'll work here. I said, well, you know, there's a game played in Canada. Which is pretty similar and pretty popular up there. It's a, it's a state, it's a country sport. So how about we look at developing that in this country? So they said, okay, what do you want to do? So I had the pick of any lacrosse player I wanted in the United States. I chose every all American that I could find. Darkie Angelo is one of them, right? Darkie you know, you John Tucker. I mean, I could go on. Yeah, John. Steve Sanderson. Nothing but all Americans. Greedy and Grevy played. And and so I went out and found the best I could buy. We had tryouts. And here I am a coach watching. I mean, it's like playing coaching one of the pro teams today. There was not a drop off in talent anywhere. And I had to choose 10 or 12. I had to choose 18 players. We got down, we had some alternates in there and then we set up what was called the super series and what it was, it was a marketing campaign. To travel between Canada and the U. S. to see what's, what cities would be best for franchise, and they wanted to sell franchises. So we went everywhere. We went to B. C., we went to Toronto, we went to, to you know, Detroit, we went to Syracuse, we went to Long Island, we went to Baltimore, Washington, you name it. Because there had been a, a, a box league earlier in the 70s. That didn't go very far that was playing in old hockey rinks and this is kind of a revival. So we got television and it was very well received everywhere we went and especially in Canada. We had huge crowds in those arenas and Chris has played in them, you know, they, they vibrate. And of course, the Canadians, John Grant Sr. was playing for Canada, you know and, and some of the great, great, Kevin Alexander, probably one of the best shooters I ever saw in my life for playing for Canada. Well, we got killed and the ego of these all America was like, we don't lose coach. We don't know. Why are we doing it? I said, you don't know the game. That's what's wrong. Yeah. So, we trained and trained. Two of the games were the Spectrum. The first one, they killed us. Second time, we came back. And they would get big crowds at the Spectrum. Oh, the Spectrum was packed. It's like 19, 000 people or something. It Hockey fans and wrestling fans. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the way they sold it and they sold it. They wanted fights. Yeah. Our referees were told if they start to fight like hockey, let them go for a while. I didn't like that at all. My type of coaching at all through the crowds. Well, we won the game, the second game in the spectrum and the place went bananas. I mean, throwing beer bottles on the status on the on the, you know, on the court, we'd have a celebration, but that's what hockey fans and wrestling fans do. So I became a success and we picked a franchise cities. I did not recommend Baltimore and they choose Baltimore. It just, it Baltimore saturated. And I did see a field game. Yeah, I did for two years. And then did you play there? Chris won in Baltimore. Yeah. 1998 was the Baltimore thunder. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I didn't make it, but anyway, so it progressed. I went up in the television booth and called the games from the, on the coaching side. We hired a Canadian coach. And it grew. It went to the M. I. L. L. Got to be got some of the franchise. The same guys were involved from Kansas City. And it grew and it grew and then cities picked up franchises a lot failed as Chris could tell you because it were mom and pop, but now it's established as a, the National Lacrosse League is one of the most stable professional leagues in the, in the, in North America. And it was just a thrill to be involved with that, at least from the beginning. That's great. Well, we've got a lot with the skates within the watching these guys fall down. I'm glad it wasn't taped. Somebody wanted to tape it, but it was things. The things you've seen in the game of lacrosse are remarkable. Yeah. And we, and we've got a lot of pride in the, in the NLL today. One of our you know, a guy I coached at Brown Brett fruit, of course, is now the commissioner of the NLL. Yeah. Yeah. Good, good brown guy and him on the show. Yeah. Yeah. So Chris, it's fascinating, right? With all those stories that Bob shares. And then you go on to an incredible indoor career. And I know I've been recognized as one of the top 20 American players of all time in the NLL. So tell us from those humble roller skate beginnings, Bob was describing Chris to what that professional lacrosse career was like for you. And I'm also interested, did you, did you really commit yourself to the indoor game? Or, you know, when the MLL started to come around. Did you, did you think about that venue? And so, so tell us about your pro career. Yeah, well, it's interesting because back in 97, it was actually still the major indoor lacrosse league with the spandex and the fanfare, and it was, it was awesome. And it was just really a league that I looked up to for the simple fact that my idols growing up were like Gary and Paul Gate. I had an STX poster on my wall. Those guys like dunking the ball over someone's head, John Canaris, I believe it was. And it was kind of like, how do I play in that league? And I was just doing more research. I actually, My first real taste of box lacrosse was at a pro skills lacrosse camp when you referenced John Grant Sr. earlier and his son was up there, John Grant Jr. I, my parents put me on a plane to Toronto when I was like 13. Yeah, you're going to go to this camp at Trent University and someone's going to, someone's going to pick you up at the airport and like call us on the pay phone. It's like, you'll figure it out. You're 13, like go for it. So I wound up going up there and I don't really have any box experience. You're ahead of your time Chris. I mean, everybody's doing that these days. Yeah. So I'm there for like eight or nine days and we're playing a little bit of box a little bit of field and I'm kind of I'm doing really well and the kids are thinking you don't play box lacrosse and you're from Long Island but like you got all these skills like how did you how have you been able to develop that it's like I would watch a lot of videos and watch a lot of Boss Cross because it just caught my eye. My dad took me to a New Jersey Saints game back when I was about 11 years old. And the funny story about this was we went to the New Jersey Saints game at Brendan Byrne Arena at the Meadowlands. Okay. It was an afternoon game. And we had all intentions of leaving that day and going home. Turns out my dad locks the keys in the car. We go out to the car after the game. We're locked in there. There's a, you know, thousands of people trying to leave. The devils were playing that night. So they're turning the turf back to the ice. We wound up hanging around and going to the devil's game. But I was so enamored with the box lacrosse game on the way home. I said, dad, I'm going to play in that league one day. And he's like, yeah, okay. That's amazing. And so my next, Kind of introduction to boss across was like, I just referenced. I went up to the pros goes across camp. It was awesome. And made a lot of fans. I still friends with a lot of those guys today. And fast forward to 1997, I had just finished four years at Hofstra and I wound up getting picked in the first round fourth overall, which in any other league in gazillions of dollars for me, it was like, they call my name and it's like, now what, what do I do? Where do I go? How does this work? I have to try out for the team. I make the team, but then you only get paid if you actually were in the lineup. So my first year with the Boston Blazers, I think I played in two games. The games used to be back on ESPN2 with Leafs, it was awesome, they had a show during the week to kind of build up the weekend games, but I only played in two games, but being the first pick first round, fourth pick overall, I was like, wow, I gotta, I only played in two games, I'm like, how do I get more experience? So I had a couple of teammates, Marty O'Neal was a goalie, Rodney Todd was a face off and defensive specialist and like, Hey, Chris, you need to go to Canada and play box across. Like, you're, you're too good to not be out there, but you just don't have enough experience yet playing that style. I was like, okay. So I made a few phone calls. I wound up getting linked up with the Brooklyn Redmond in Ontario. I go up there. I kind of not do that like in the summer. Like, it's like a major series lacrosse in the OLA, the Ontario Lacrosse Association. I wound up going up there. They're like, yeah, try it. They like, yeah, we're going to scrimmage, like go out there, show us what you can do. I think I had like three goals in the first like eight minutes of the game. The guy pulls me aside. He's like, listen, he's like, he's like, yeah, we want you to stick around. And I'm just. At the time, I think I was working at a lacrosse store in Weymouth, Massachusetts when I was with Boston. And why didn't I tell a guy, I'm like, listen, I'm leaving. I got an opportunity to go play box lacrosse and this is my dream. I want to try and go see what I can do up there. Long story short, I was piggybacking playing in the summers in box lacrosse and in the winters in the NLL. So I was playing so much lacrosse to your point earlier about the major league lacrosse. I knew I could, I knew I want to say easily, but I knew I could play in that league. But I also felt that the NLL or the MILL at the time, which would become the National Lacrosse League To me, that was, I wanted the crowd, I wanted the energy, I wanted the excitement of that style of play, the physicality, just everything that was electric about that. So that was my goal, was like, okay, play as much box as you can in the summer and then take all that back to your pro game and just try to do that over and over and over again. So I was pretty fortunate, I was lucky, I had a great coach, incredible teammates. So that's really how I was able to blossom. It was all pretty much grit and resiliency. Getting my head handed to me, but also dishing it out as well. So it worked. Well, that's great. That's awesome again. Yeah Yeah, beautiful. I love that story from from your dad, right? But the new jersey saints and the new jersey devils to to just find it a way to make it happen And obviously, Chris, there's a little bit of talent there as well, because once you did learn how to play that indoor game that style, you know, you went on to play on a number of indoor Team USA teams, and I think we all, you know, kind of know that the outdoor Team USA, but. But tell our listeners about the indoor Team USA and that experience and, and what that global competition was like. Oh, absolutely. So really, when I take it back to 2001, we played Canada in what was called the Heritage Cup. And we, I believe that was up in Mississauga, just outside of Toronto. And of course, going in, it was like, we're probably gonna, you know, have our hands full. Certainly. I mean, they're incredible at box across. But our team was tremendous. Tony Rush is our coach. Incredible. He's working with the archers. I just would ask too, Chris, was this the beginning? I'm not as familiar when the world championship stuff started in, or I guess you're saying this was like an initial tournament. So is this as it's just warming, but was it pre world lacrosse? Yeah, the World Lacrosse Championship started in 2003, but prior to that, the 2001 was just simply USA versus Canada. Hey, come up to put your best team together, slap on the USA jersey, we'll put the Canadian jersey on, we'll play you guys. And we actually won that game 21 to 16, which people just mesmerized because really, if you looked at their roster, you looked at our roster, both extremely talented, but the style of lacrosse, you would, you would have thought that they would have gotten the better hand of us. But it was an incredible game. I mean, you're talking about all stars across the board on both teams, but we, we were able to, to get that and, and, you know, just kind of building momentum from there. And then 2003 is kind of what really kicked off the world across into our championships. And again, I was fortunate enough to play on that. We came up short, we, you know, it was Canada at the time, Iroquois and now Haudenosaunee. Right. Right. Same thing in 2007, we came in third, but obviously, you know, if you look at those rosters, those rosters. Those guys have a lot more experience than we did. And then 2010, we played up at the Onondaga war Memorial. We took place was the bow hunter cup where we played the national team. We, we won that game 1110, which was incredible because we had never beaten them. So I can say that throughout my career, I was able to be Canada and boss across and the Eric cause of box across, but I have nothing but respect for those guys. I have a lot of friends. I spent a lot of times on the reservation. Like I love those guys. I mean, I love all my teammates and all my competitors because it made me really develop and grow as a player. Yeah, that's awesome. Hey Chris, who are, who are some of the names that we might recognize that were, you know, some of your memorable teammates throughout those Team USA years? Well, you got guys like Kevin Finneran Jake Berge Reggie Thorpe, Tom Ryan, Mark Millen. I know I'm going to leave a few out, but but Casey pal, Eric Miller in the cage again, American goalie going into the cage for boss across is quite, you know, quite an adjustment. Again, great coaching staff Randy Frazier was another player of mine on the team. So you know, I just look at back at all those guys and it's just like it was, it was a true honor to be on the same field with those guys quite frankly. That's awesome. Good stuff. And Chris, as we mentioned in the opening, you're the head coach of the Greek national indoor team, and they're going to be competing in this world lacrosse box championship coming up, you know, September 20th to the 29th in Utica, New York. So that's really exciting. So tell us how you got started with team Greece and what you're expecting for this world championship. So if we backtrack to 2018, I was an assistant coach offensive coordinator for the Greece National Field team, and we went over, we actually went over to Greece first for Israel. Okay. Yeah. We went over to Greece for five days, kind of grassroots. We trained over there trying to get sticks in kids' hands at an early age.'cause there's really not a lot of lacrosse over there. So that was part of the reasoning was to try to grow the game and then part of that trip was to go obviously to Netanya Israel to be part of the, you know, the field world championship. So, again, there was 46 countries. We wound up coming in 19th place for our first go around. We only had about 4 or 5 practices. So that was kind of the start of it for me, and then we're developing the sixes style, trying to get guys involved over there as well as throughout the U. S. and Canada with Greek lineage. See, the thing about the World Across criteria is, for example, this World Games, we have to have 85 percent of our roster prove lineage to motherland Greece. So that can be mom and dad, grandma and grandpa would either a birth certificate or, you know, proving that they were born in Greece. So that way their offspring can be considered as part of a potential candidate for, and that's, they're very strict about that. So this year's team, what I'm, what I'm bringing, to Utica. It was challenging. I'm not gonna lie. Just trying to find those guys. And we don't really have a lot of practices. We're only gonna have two practices when I get up there. So it's gonna be, it's gonna be a unique experience because trying to build a team really quickly, the chemistry, the style of play. So we've, you know, we're gonna have our hands full, but nonetheless, I mean, we're in it. We're in the pool with Japan, who's a top five team. Now, how are they g I'm not sure, but I'm sur to be very skilled and di be with Finland and Switc you know, great pedigree And they're also been able to get over there and kind of develop some of these guys. We, we don't really have any guys from Greece on this roster per se. It's all been through the lineage criteria. So we have some good players. I will say our goalie is a, is a, is a Buffalo bandits goalie. So, you know, I feel like starting in the cage, I think we'll be strong there. And then we'll just, we're just going to have to put it together and see what we can do. That's great. And then how many teams are going to participate in this world indoor championship? I believe we're in the 28 range. I know the women's are also simultaneously doing, I think there's 10 women's teams and I believe there's 20, just, you know, it's, it's different than the field. There's like 90 teams that are, that are sanctioned in the field. And Bob could probably speak more to this when it comes to box that shrinks down tremendously to about 28 and that'll continue to grow over time. But again, to be part of this inaugural team and box, I'm excited. And we'll, we'll, we'll see what we can do. Great. Yeah, I played for the junior team USA back in 88 and it was five teams. So you guys are, you're growing the sport. That's for sure. Now Bob, you know, as we mentioned, you've coached all over the place and at all different age groups and and I've coached with you at the UVA lacrosse camp the last couple summers and talking to you, you tell me how you still are doing some skills training. With young players and we'd like to talk about skills on this podcast. And now what would you say to young listeners out there and their parents, let's say middle school kids, you know, sixth to eighth grade, what is a set of skills they really need to master before they're getting into that, those high school years? Well, I think that in the early years and I'm working with US lacrosse to developing soft lacrosse has been a real boost to the game because the younger guys with a hard ball, I think it a couple of times they get there's a there's a fear factor. Yeah. Whereas with soft lacrosse, you could develop your skills. And not have that fear. And then you graduate up. Now, what the transition is, I don't really know. It depends on the skill level of the kid. You can have a sixth grader that can play JV, and then you could have a sixth grader that really has to develop the skills, the basics. And I've had super all Americans players of the year who come out and play wall ball every day before practice and every afternoon after practice, you know, I mean, wall ball is kids are hearing that, but I'm, I'm telling you, it is the best in the world for teaching now it, it teaches you how to catch your discipline. You're by yourself. So you make mistakes. You're not embarrassed if you don't want to get by yourself in a wall ball. But developing the skills. It's really taking whatever is the difference in different age groups. I've had to take kids that are in high school and I think Chris has two in his, in his skill development. And you gotta, if they coming off a club, you're breaking bad habits and trying to teach them how to do the game. Right. If you're starting with the real young ones. It's really basic stuff, throwing, catching, scooping talking, figuring out, trying to develop IQ in the game. That's the key. And of course, you guys know, the longer you play the game, the more it slows down. And slowness of the game makes you a better player because you see the whole field. And I try to teach that when I'm teaching, especially high school kids. The lower ones, we just let them have, make them have fun. It's got, they've got to walk away with a fun, good feeling to continue in the game, but you teach them the skills. You teach them the throwing, the catching. And then you start getting them into competition, and it becomes like a small two on one and loose ball, so they learn that there's a little contact in the game. And as you get bigger, the, you know, the the skills have to develop even more. And a lot of these younger, I don't even put equipment on them, maybe gloves. Because you're playing the softball. The older guys, obviously, we do complete equipment. And, and, and again, it's position oriented to the mama Mitty, certain skills. I want a defenseman, certain skills. I want tax, same thing. And especially in goalie goalie and face off guys. I've had the privilege of working with my whole career. It's a shame how valuable they are. We're finding that out. Yeah. Yeah. At fourth union. But there are two valuable positions and I don't know why I've kind of vacillated to those and really personal teaching. And if you can develop a good face off man, you control the ball, develop a good goalie. You can make the save and have the offense going the other way. But the kids enthusiasm comes from making it fun. Yeah. That's a great point. Then you may you have him for life, right? That's a great point. And Chris, back to you real quick on the skills like with the indoor game. I had a player, this guy, Peyton Booth played on the U 15 indoor team for Team USA and they won the gold, right? And I did see, you know, they just get so nifty handling the ball inside and a lot of things you can pick up in that box game that makes you better on the field. So if you could talk to that a little bit to our listeners, that would be great. Yeah, I mean, obviously the biggest thing about box, the difference is the amount of touch, the amount of reps, the speed of the game, the physicality, the tenacity, the creativity. Some of the nuances of obviously the smaller goals, the shot clock, even though now we have shot clock in field and now in the world games, which is awesome. It's, it's just, it's having to make quicker decisions and just understanding angle play. And some of the guys that are actually really good at box when they go out of the field, it's just, it seems a little bit easier because the goal's bigger, there's more room to operate there's not as much contact, I'm not saying that there's not contact in the field, certainly there is, but in the close confines, you gotta be able to manipulate your stick and, and kinda just be quick on your feet in terms of thinking and just the traditional overhand pass which is continually harped upon the mechanics of that. It could be a shovel pass which makes sense, it could be a lever pass, it could be behind the back and it's just whatever it calls for. I think the instinctual style of lacrosse, and again, back to the word creativity. When you look at Haudenosaunee play and you look at the Canadians play, it's like, they just, they may not have a weak hand, but they don't necessarily need a weak hand because they're able to adapt and use different styles of lacrosse and capabilities to just make the play and have fun.

Jay: 25:12

How about if we transition to. J m l and let's do that.

25:17

to just make the play and have fun. to just make the play and have fun. Did just make a play and have fun. That's the spirit, the JML online course catalog was made with. That's why the skills mindset and max IQ training was developed. As a youth lacrosse coach for over 20 years now, it really frustrated me to see players come to practice without the skills they needed to make the game fun. Those skills take time and are not something that can be developed during team practice Are there skills that need to be brought with you to practice. So you make your team better. And according to the calendar, the first day of fall has not arrived. And that's why we're still making our special offer on our online training courses. We've had a number of our listeners make the most of this opportunity this summer. And you can do the same, but you'll need to act fast. because it won't last for long. So listen in and take advantage of it now big additions to the JML course catalog. Now we have a defenseman's course taught by none other than UVA head coach, Lars, Tiffany, and a goalie course taught by former two-time All-American and UVA assistant coach kept Turner. And we are offering for a limited time only. 70% off. That's right. 70% off of our four week online courses that help young players take their skills, mindset, and max IQ from good to great. That means you can get access to these highly rated trainings for only$90. That's right. For$90 offensive players defensemen and goalies can take their game to the next level. The best time of year to improve your game. And that's why we are making this special offer. So jump on it now because it won't last for long. Simply download the free version of the Jane McMahon lacrosse app. Or just follow the link that's listed in the show notes. And you will see the coupon code noted for each different course speaking of no guardrails that so many of our listeners describe the college lacrosse recruiting trail. So we've responded by putting excerpts of our 10 best interviews with legendary coaches, such as bill Tierney, Lars, Tiffany and Andy towers. Into a book that you can access for free on our JML app. Simply download the J McMahon lacrosse app at the apple app store or at Google play for Android and check it out. And for those. Who would like a book in their hands? Or on their Kindle, it is available on Amazon, under the title inside the recruiting game insights from college lacrosse coaches. So with that, you will see the description of these items also in the show notes. And due to popular demand, we have put together a Patrion page for the show. This will allow those interested in supporting our efforts to do just that and to get exclusive access to unedited interviews. Big discounts on the JML online courses and merchandise from our new online store. We're excited to get back to our interview and you will find that interview in I mean, you know, back to, back to my high school days, I'll tell you a quick story. I scored a behind the back goal in the county semifinals, and this is the Kostanowski. I get home, and it's a message on the voicemail, which is an old answering machine on the counter with a landline. Lights blinking, and we get home, and Dad presses play. And the message is from Kostanowski, and the message is, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, what? Hey, great play. Or Hey. Forget about your scholarship. We don't do that here at Hofstra. Home with a bride. To find out what coach Dino said back in the day, check in next week.

Ron: 29:05

until we meet again, here to, hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the Get the LAX coop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.