S2 E29. Penn Quaker & USILA COY, Mike Murphy, Takes a Walk In Memphis, With USILA ACOY Chris Colbeck,Part II.

In this episode of 'Get the Lax Scoop', hosts Big Dog and Jaybird continue their in-depth conversation with special guests USILA COY and head coach at Penn Mike Murphy and former USILA assistant COY at UVA Chris Colbeck. They discuss the critical importance of skill development, the need for consistent practice, and the value of loving the game. Murphy and Colbeck share their insights on fostering championship habits and the balance between skill training and game exposure. They also touch upon the broader lessons that sports can teach young players about hard work, dedication, and personal growth. The episode highlights Chris Colbeck’s unique life journey from coaching lacrosse to farming and teaching, underscoring the profound impact of relationships and personal development in both sports and life.

00:00 Introduction to Lax Scoop Podcast

00:23 Meet the Hosts and Guest

01:02 Interview with Coaches Mike Murphy and Chris Colbeck

01:36 Importance of Skill Development

06:28 Balancing Exposure and Skill Training

14:12 JML Courses and Special Offers

18:11 Chris Colbeck's Life Journey

22:34 Coaching Philosophy and Success

35:25 Conclusion and Sign Off

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Transcript

Jay: 0:00

It's time for get the La Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know. In the game of lacrosse, we take LAX seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join hosts, big Dog and Jaybird, and the biggest names in the game. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Ron Doish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the sports found. and Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All-American Midfielder Brown. He was a captain of the US Junior National team and is the founder of J M L. And joining us in the studio, Steve gfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Helping the next generation cross players. Get to the next level.

1:00

Hello, everyone. And welcome back to the show. We're super excited to bring you part two of our three-part interview series. With us ILA coach of the year and Penn men's lacrosse, coach Mike Murphy. And USI. ILA assistant coach of the year, Chris Colback. If you have not listened to part one, we highly recommend going back and giving it a listen. First with a high level of content that it contains. And secondly, to hear what it was like as we welcomed our first surprise mystery guest and coach callback, murph was elated and shocked to say the least. You will find this interview picking up right where we left off after session one. So, Chris, the topic we emphasize to our listeners is the importance of skill development, you know, working on those skills between practices, and Mike was talking a little bit about that as he was growing up. It was the same thing when I was in Garden City. It was like a bunch of kids who just loved the sport, and we were playing on our own. We didn't even realize that that's what we were doing. You know, we were really getting better and better, but, you know, as a former high level D1 coach and a current high school coach, If you could tell us and our listeners, what are some of the essential skills that you think players really need to be working on, you know, on their own. So they're bringing that value to practice, to games, to tournaments. I think for me, it's, it hasn't changed since Murph and I were doing individual work at the opposite ends of fields. At Virginia, it's a lot of footwork stuff. So tons of skeleton dodging just working out your moves. Obviously a lot of shooting, a lot of stick handling, but since I've been here, this is probably the first summer I haven't done it, I've sort of given the kids a chance to do the same skill training that we used to do years ago. And I don't think it's varied that much. I don't think it's very that much, but, you know, get out for an hour, put the cones out on the field, go as hard as you at good angles work on shooting on the run, work on catching it back, work on, you know, cutting and popping and curling to the ball and all these things in a consolidated time period. And just really grinding it out. For, for many, my first couple of years, we'd have six guys or so that were playing in college that would come back and we'd do it at six in the morning because it gets so hot here. And we'd go for about six weeks, four or five times a week. And I just think that that is, if you're actually serious about lacrosse. That is what you have to do. And that was a real change here. Guys want to play on summer leagues. They want to go do travel teams, and that's all great for exposure. But you're not going to get recruited if you're on the in between days, Monday through Thursday, before you go into a tournament, if you're not grinding it out, both in the weight room, on the track, and then particularly doing that individual work, whether it. Would be what Murph used to do with defensive footwork and stick work and angles and the same thing, you know, the compliment to that on the offensive end, it's just, you, you have to do it. You just absolutely have to do it. And I've always been one of my favorite things to do. Even coaching college, I just loved the small group. You probably remember Jane dog. We can only have three guys out there at a time. And so that, that sort of three man. And I always found it fun as a coach to sort of create a program within an hour where guys can get the maximum amount of reps, good reps, good angles, good repetitions without falling down with their tongue hanging out. Like how do you plan out that five minutes or plan out that hour? And I've always really enjoyed that and still do. That's great. Yeah, I started doing skills training after I just coached at the youth level for about 15, 18 years and then started doing some skills training and just love it. And you can just see the kids getting better and better. And it takes, like I said, you can't just do it once or twice. It takes six weeks to make a significant improvement, you know, in their game. And so coach Mike, would you, what would you how would you answer that question? What would you say? I I think it really starts with two things. One is just a love for the game and the process, like we were talking about before, like you have to enjoy what Chris just said. You know, you see the benefit of it and make sure it's worth it consistently, which really leads to the second point that we talk about here a lot at Penn, just what we refer to as championship habits. You need to systematize things like that. In my belief, discipline leads to habits. So if you have some semblance of discipline, you can make yourself go out there at 6 00 AM or whatever it might be, you know, to go out there on a regular basis and just work at it. And then all of a sudden, after you do it for two or three weeks in a row. It's not, am I going to do this or not? Actually, what time am I going out there? And once you get to that point, that's when compound interest starts to build. Right. And that's when you really see results. And I agree, like, you know, we see it where we live, you know, in Philly. Kids want to play on these teams and go do this and go do that. Like, that sounds great. Once every week or two or whatever, you know, once, you know, a couple times a summer. But most of your time needs to be spent getting better. Those are the tests. Right. That's when you find out how much better you've gotten, but you really need to look at it. And it's, it's the stuff that Chris talked about. It's the weight room now that's gotten a lot more important. You know, some people believe in speed training. I think there's a lot of ways to, to get better. And, and so I think developing those habits is the most important piece and just loving kind of that, that process and that evolution. Mike, could we, could we pursue that a little bit more? Cause you know. The other thing we try to do, you know, we got listeners who are themselves high school players who want to get recruited and the parents of those kids and, you know, coach after coach after coach will come on this podcast and say different versions of what you have said. And so how do you talk to the kids that you're recruiting? And, you know, this starts so early, but there's so much. Sort of pressure and just this is what I'm supposed to do and what my club coach is telling me to do that. I got to plan all these events. We've got coaches that would say they watch kids get worse over the summer because they're playing so many games. They're just not working on their skills. And so how do you talk to young kids, you know, that are coming up early in high school about how they should approach. The next few years of their high school career and this balance because there is a reality, right? Especially if you're a kid from Memphis, you've got to find those moments where you're going to get exposure. So how do you, how do you tell kids to craft that pathway towards getting a look? Yeah, great question. And every kid is different. Like I have two kids in high school, a daughter and a son are both both lacrosse players, and there are different stages in this journey. But they both understand having older brothers, you know that you have to put the work in and you have to be specific in what you're trying to improve upon, whether it's your physical ability or your, your technical skill or even what we call tactical, you know, your game sense if you're just a good shooter and really fast but you don't know how to play with other guys. Yeah. You still need to improve that, that part of it as well. And so a couple of examples and we say play club lacrosse, that's a very broad bucket and obviously those things are for profit entities. And so if you're the one, the paying customer, I think you're entitled to tell them what you're ready to do and not do in some respects. But a lot of those clubs do a really good job of developing kids in the ways we're talking about. Some don't do it at all. Like if you're playing for a national team, you're obviously not practicing. Okay. And that's not doing you a lot of good from a development standpoint, but there are clubs out there that do a really good job of developing kids physically and developing their skills and the other clubs that, that really don't, don't do it at all. And, and so I think you just need to be specific and if a kid's a sophomore, junior in high school, he's got probably more lacrosse behind him than he does in front of him. If you think about it. And so we have a young man in the class of 25 who's going to take a gap year. And so he's like, well, what do we want to do? And so we thought about things. He's not going to do a PG or just going to work. So we talked about the work side of things and what he wants to accomplish there. And then we talked about the lacrosse side of things. And it really came down to, you know, building his left hand up and getting faster. Like those, that's those two things, and it didn't sound like a lot, but like, if he puts a couple hours a week into those two things, he's going to be a lot better lacrosse player when he gets to college than he was in high school. Right. And Chris, how about you're clearly showing those kids and by the way, you're showing up at 6 a. m. So you're demonstrating to them and modeling for them the kind of commitment it takes to get better. But what about for those kids? You know, there are truly, I mean, it's so, this is how much the game has changed since we were young, right? There are great players everywhere. So if I'm that kid who's in geography like Memphis that isn't the traditional lacrosse hotbed. How are you telling those kids who you can see have that ability? Where are you? Where are you? You know, where are you suggesting they go to get that exposure? How are you advising them? It's it's a tough one because what happens with the club, some programs is that there's this blind sort of sense that, well, if I play on this club, it's going to happen for me. You know, if I, if I spend the money and go play in whatever tournaments, the popular tournaments are, I don't Murph would know better than I do, but then I'm definitely going to get recruited. And so they think there's going to be some sort of immediate return on that investment. And I, without being pessimistic, I really try to tell them. This is really hard. This is, there are a lot of good players and there are a lot of guys bigger, stronger, and faster than you that have already been working on their game for 12 years, you know? And so it's, but if you really want this, and I think Murph hit on a huge point, you have to love it. You have to really love it and really want to do it at any level that you can, not just set your sights on the top. You know, not just set your sights on Penn and the other top programs, but if you really love it, then this is what you're going to do. And I, I can help you work on this, but it's a tough one because we see so many guys and it's not just kids from Memphis, it's kids from Baltimore that invest all of this time and energy and money playing on tournaments. And the numbers just don't bear out the possibility of it going to happen for them at the schools that they aspire to attend. So it's just, it's trying to be realistic, and also letting them know how much work it takes. And our challenge here, Is that we don't have tons of guys in this neck of the woods where they have seen that behavior modeled, you know, I have a handful of guys that come, but if you're not up at six in the morning and seeing what a handful of guys are doing in order to try to at least give themselves a chance to maybe, you know, You know, it's not even to be an All American, it's just to keep their position on the field. It's not like being in another area where everybody is grinding, and they realize that that's what's required, and I think they have a better sense that, hey, that guy was incredible and he worked his butt off, I mean, it'sI always think about something murderous. It was kind of in jest, but it was true, it was, you know, the parents expectations of where their son's going to end up. And I don't want to misquote you here, Murph, but you said something to the effect of it's the parents fault if it doesn't work out because either you didn't give them the genetics or you didn't give them the work ethic. You haven't showed them how to work hard enough to do that. And that's the case for a lot of kids. And so I want you to work hard. I want you to try to follow your dream. If this is something you really want, I'm there to try to help you. But please keep in mind that there are no guarantees for this thing. It's a really hard and it's increasingly hard thing to do every year. I mean, it's just very, very hard to get one of these opportunities at any school. It's just hard. Murph, what are you going to add there? Thank you, Doug. I agree. And I think it's very important for people to understand that about 3 percent of the high school boys lacrosse players will end up playing division one lacrosse. And that is not what the statistics were like when we were in high school, you know, in the eighties. And I think what I was saying before about our experience in New Canaan, like, we did it because we loved it and we wanted to wanted to get better and win. And then all of a sudden, we get toward the end of high school and we have these college opportunities. And I think now kids start out on that journey and they have some sort of expectation for college. And they think if they just go through this process. That if they play for Club Team X or go to high school, you know, A, B or C, that they're just going to be entitled to the same opportunities that kids had before them, whether it's Calvert Hall or Garden City or wherever it might be. And it's just, it's not the case, you know, that's not the way it works. And I think that's some of the trap that they fall into that they think if they pay the money for the club or go to this high school, that's how you get recruited. They don't understand it's because of the 6 a. m. and the other part.

Jay: 14:07

How about if we transition to. J m l and let's do that.

14:12

Folks, what Coaches Murphy and Kolbeck have just described is exactly why myself and Coaches Lars Tiffany and Kip Turner created the JML Courses. Because so many players out there, so many that I have coached, that coaches Tiffany and Turner, and we hear from coaches Kolbeck and Murphy, all they have come into contact with, are so close to getting what they need, but are not close enough. Players do need to play for a competitive club team and a high school, but that's not all. As these two highly successful coaches just said, coaches Murphy and Kolbeck, Players also need the skills, mindset, and lax IQ training that's going to elevate their game and take them to the next level. So I urge all parents and players out there to invest in themselves. You're putting a lot of money into these clubs. Take a real small fraction of that and put it towards an opportunity. to learn these skills, mindset, and lax IQ training that we have to offer. We're giving our listeners an opportunity to get our program at an unprecedented discount. And there's live coaching support on the platform along with the pre recorded sessions. And we have a community of like minded individuals who are taking the journey with you and who can help you be accountable and get the most out of the process. And if you want to work out at 6 a. m., you can do that, but you don't have to. You can do the training at any time you'd like. And we do advise though, as coaches Murphy and Colbeck mentioned that you follow the weekly workouts and then repeat that three to four times per week. This is for attackmen, long poles and goalies. Now you'll hear a little more about our offer. Big additions to the JML course catalog. Now we have a defenseman's course taught by none other than UVA head coach, Lars, Tiffany, and a goalie course taught by former two-time All-American and UVA assistant coach kept Turner. And the summer we are offering for a limited time only. 70% off. That's right. 70% off of our four week online courses that help young players take their skills, mindset, and max IQ from good to great. That means you can get access to these highly rated trainings for only$90. That's right. For$90 offensive players defensemen and goalies can take their game to the next level. The summer is the best time of year to improve your game. And that's why we are making this special offer. So jump on it now because it won't last for long. Simply download the free version of the Jane McMahon lacrosse app. Or just follow the link that's listed in the show notes. And you will see the coupon code noted for each different course. Speaking of no guardrails that so many of our listeners describe the college lacrosse recruiting trail. So we've responded by putting excerpts of our 10 best interviews with legendary coaches, such as bill Tierney, Lars, Tiffany and Andy towers. Into a book that you can access for free on our JML app. Simply download the J McMahon lacrosse app at the apple app store or at Google play for Android and check it out. And for those. Who would like a book in their hands? Or on their Kindle, it is available on Amazon, under the title inside the recruiting game insights from college lacrosse coaches. And due to popular demand, we have put together a Patrion page for the show. This will allow those interested in supporting our efforts to do just that and to get exclusive access to unedited interviews. Big discounts on the JML online courses and merchandise from our new online store go ahead and check out the links in today's show notes. We're excited to get back to our interview and you will find that interview in progress. Hey, Chris, can I go back? Here's, I'm going to try and lift you up now. Okay. So, you know, the, the thing that while we haven't seen each other for a long time, like knowing people who know you, like your life journey is so interesting. Right. You, you've engaged in so many different things, you know, from farming and your passion to the environment and teaching and coaching and going back to school as Jay said, but like, I saw you lean in when you were talking about those 6am workouts and angles and cones. And like, you still love the game, you know? So what is it about it that you love about the game? Now, it is, well, I think it always was. The same, even when Murph and I were together in Virginia, I love the process of, you know, Murph was saying you have to love the process and I, I really do love the process as a teacher or an educator or a coach, when you see somebody put in the effort, you work on the deep angle, change direction on the crease tangent, you know, the zigzag move to the, and you see them do it over and over and over again. And then they do it in a game without even thinking about it. And they're shocked that this just happened. And it's whether it turns out to be something that changes their life, where they end up. Playing college lacrosse somewhere where they just realize the connection between hard work and results. That's what I really love, you know, I really love when a kid just sort of says, Oh, like, I've been grinding at this thing for months, if not years, and I actually get results and he may never play college lacrosse, but he's realizing somewhere along the way that I put this time in and I had a positive outcome and, you know, And that's what I really love, I've always loved that about, particularly I've always loved individual work because I, I would tell you that's, that's more life changing than the destination. Right. Well, it's what makes you a great teacher too, Chris. I'm sure you're no different in your classroom, right, is that kid who is just struggling and struggling, but you see him working and you see, I mean, that for, for, for us who work in schools with young people, when you see those, that light bulb moment, because you know, they've put in the work. That's, but that's the thing, you know, like Mike just Give the thumbs up too as well. It's like that is life changing. And just like Chris just said it, whether or not they play in college lacrosse really doesn't matter, but they put in that effort for four to six weeks and they literally can see something in their game, probably three, four or five things are going to transform. And when you really build that muscle memory, like Chris just said, it happens in a game. Without even thinking about it. That's the great thing. And then they can say to themselves like in life, right? You know, I approach this with discipline. I approach this with intent. I approach this with some enthusiasm and energy And if I do that not just for a day or two not just for a week or two I do that consistently and it's not forever. It's literally within six weeks. Let's say you're gonna see some big changes So I think it has got to be you know for you guys in education just showing kids that it's such a great tool And that's what I love about it and what I love about the skills training. It's like you put in the time. Again, we're not talking about a couple days. We're not talking about a couple weeks. We're talking about making a commitment. And then you see that kid light up because just like Chris says, they start doing it in games. So it, it is, it's really great. And truthfully, it's the same thing, at least for our level off the field. You watch a kid and we have like a joke of the day that kids will have to stand up and that we rotate and their ability to project and articulate their thoughts, whether it's a joke or presenting part of the sky report in front of the team, their evolution from their freshman year to their senior year. Is remarkable. And, and that part of it is just as gratifying as their approaches on defense or what they're doing, you know, with their dodges and face off technique and everything else that, that transformation is so important. And for these kids to understand that they can do that and really anything. Right. And lacrosse come to more easily than, you know, calculus, or if they're going to become an accountant or whatever it is they're going to do. But like, that's why. Sports, you know, are so important to our society because it's, it just allows them to learn about themselves and realize that they can achieve or improve in anything they want. That's great. And, you know, Mike, as we highlighted in your intro, you've been winning as coach at, in Penn men's lacrosse history. And another fact we didn't mention, you were tied as the winningest coach of all time at Haverford College right before you left. So if you could tell us in a nutshell, and I'm stealing Ron's question, because he just stole mine. What is your coaching philosophy? And what do you think are some of the big keys to success that have, you know, for you, what have really been the big keys? Cause we get a lot of coaches listening to the show too, you know, what would you say, what would you throw out there? You know, a lot of it stuff I learned, you know, just from, you know, being with, with Dom for six years and, you know, being with, with Coles and a couple of other guys that were pretty impactful to me, but I think just in a nutshell, it's really work ethic. It's the same thing that works for these kids. You know like, and again, I, I'm lucky'cause I love what I do. Like Mm-Hmm. I, I would do this for free. I wouldn't tell my boss that, but like, I would, I would do this for nothing. Like if I, whenever I retire, I, I'm gonna keep doing this'cause I love it. And so it's not really like work, like waking up at five 30. Like I, I just pop outta bed and I'm, you know, I know what I gotta do that day and I'm excited to, to dive into it. So it starts with, with a work ethic, which I think. You know, I certainly appreciate that from my time with Dom. And I think the second part really is just treating people well, being respectful in the way you do things, whether it's, you know, leaving a place better than you found it, telling people the truth when you're recruiting, right? Things like that. Like I can sleep at night and I think Kohl's is as good an example as I can think of. You just want to be authentic and Kohl's is as authentic as anybody I know. I probably offend people sometimes and I'm not, you know, I don't mean to, but I'm just going to tell people the truth. I think the more you do that and treat people the right way. No, like, you know, listen to them and tell kids what they need to hear, you know, on and off the field. Like those are the two things that I think have probably shaped my career more than anything else. And I think the last thing is just, you know, choosing to have a positive attitude. Which you can, and we went through COVID. That was as challenging a situation as I've been through from a professional standpoint, you know, to have our season canceled and then they canceled the 21 season, like these seniors, like what they go through, the relationships we have with them, like that was hard. And for those guys and for our team to choose. Choose a good attitude and persevere through that and then to come out and win the Ivy Championship the next year. Like, so I, I think a positive attitude can get you through pretty much anything and you combine that with a work ethic and treating people the right way. Like, you know, I think you can be good at a lot of different things. I'm not sure how good I am at this, but whatever success I've had, I think has probably been a result of those three things as much as anything else. And so you must have like a serious system in place though, too, so that you can just get up and go and execute it. Like, so you probably just have, you know, a big groundwork and parameters like, all right, you know, this team in particular needs to get better at what it might be clearing or whatever. And this other team, you know, so is it, you're, you're just like executing this system type of thing. Is that what it is? Yeah. I mean, I would say that coaching is an art more than a science. But there's a lot of science behind the art, if that makes sense. And I'm kind of more of a, kind of a check the box, like lists and, you know, percentages and things like that. I also appreciate at the end of the day, this is an art. This is a relationship business, not, you know, an X and O business and sales business. Like this is a relationship business. And the better the relationships are, the better we're going to be usually. But to answer your question, I 100 percent have somewhat of a systematic approach to almost everything that I do. And the better the relationship that you have the player, the harder they're going to play, right? And the harder I'm going to coach, too. It's the same thing, you know, Coles is showing up at 6 a. m. Like we have 6. 30 lifts. I'm going to be there, you know. And a guy texts me at 6 o'clock in the morning or an alum texts me at 5. 45. I'm gonna get back to him, you know, right? Nice. Hey, Chris you know, I'm, I want to get back to your life and career trajectory and, and talk about what the connective tissue is from your perspective. Cause as I alluded to, you know, a few minutes ago, you're. A really high level collegiate lacrosse player who goes and coaches at the very highest level for 10 plus years and and the natural step after that for most people is then to help restore Chesapeake Bay habitats and then manage one of the largest commercial farms on the eastern shore I mean, that's how most of us, you know step through life and and I mean this and again Ron's taking my question. Can I at least get the quote in? Murph is laughing. No, Jay, stop it. This is, this is from, I'm gonna ask the qu coach Chris Colbeck. It's a great quote, but let me just throw it in. Doug's stealing my thing, but here's Beck's quote. It's great. As coaches, we all believe that we work really hard. Colbeck says Farming from 4:00 AM until dark every day. We'll alter your perspective. I love that. Jay, I know, Jay, thank you. We're very anxious here to get that quote and we've gotten the quote. Okay, Ron, back to you. Ask Chris the question. Thank God you got that in, Jay. It was a nice chuckle. Oh, but, but Chris, I really you know, we talked a little while ago. We don't do lacrosse. Just because we want to score goals, right? We do lacrosse and teach these lessons because it's about a young person's life. And Murph, you described it. You're yeah, you want to win championships, but you win championships by helping kids understand what the process is to achieve excellence. So Chris, how, what's this life path been for you? This journey that's taken you from. lacrosse you know, being a teacher in Memphis and all those cool things in between. Cause I kind of love it. And I, and I want to just, I want to, I think it's a great example for young people, right? That your life can take many different paths. And so how would you describe your story and those leaps that you've taken along the way? That's a great question. I would backtrack to one thing about Murph. And he probably doesn't want to hear a compliment, but Murph gave you very broad strokes of why he's successful as a coach. And he probably doesn't want to give away all his trade secrets, but he's very innovative about how he runs his program. And over the years, Murph and I have talked a couple of times about, How he structures his off season. And I don't know if it's a product of being in the Ivies where you need to be particularly efficient or you're working with really smart, sort of ambitious kids that allows him to do a lot of things, but he does things differently. It's not just the same old rinse and repeat. And it's not the same old rinse and repeat every year. Even if something was maybe successful the year before he's always on the cutting edge of trying to figure out how I can maximize. Getting the most out of my guys in a positive way, but at the same time, Murph has done a great job of highlighting these great parts of coaching that we all love, which is, it's about people to and developing people, which oftentimes gets put on a shelf. The higher up you get. in the world of college coaching. And Murph hasn't sort of de emphasized that part of his, his coaching ethos at all, which I think needs to be highlighted. You know, he's still doing the, the people work while he's getting the most out of them in a oftentimes somewhat scientific, somewhat very strategic approach to coaching. And so I just wanted to throw that out there. Murph gave you the. Working hard and and being honest, but he's also really smart. I mean, he's really, really smart guy in the way that he runs his program. And I think that's why they're so successful. And that's why Penn has changed in a lot of ways over the years and been 1 of the top dogs in the Ivy's for quite some time smart for a guy. I get it. Yeah. It's where it's tough to tough to tough to recognize the Duke Ness, but he's not a typical Dukie. I'll give him Calls. You Chris. It's funny you say that because early on I'm like, wow, you know, I just realized Murph might be the only Duke guy I really like. I mean, I think, you know, I mean, so yes. Chris, you just said it in a much nicer way. Yes. Yep. Which is your way. But he had a, he had, you had a good crew guys, but you also had a couple of guys, you know, Alright, that's a good way to put it. I don't, you know, I just, my path was back to your question. It was, it was not random because I am a believer that I was following something inside of me that was taking me to each one of these paths. And I don't want to get too heavy. I've mentioned it before talking to Peter about Emerson and, and, you know, the voyage of the, The zigzagging ship tacking across the ocean. If you're following this inner sense of yourself, then you're going to end up where you're supposed to be. And I really do believe that's what happened to me. The coaching thing was you know, it was you. It had just sort of run its course, and I saw how Coach did it, Coach Stargia did it, and I didn't know if I could do it as gracefully as he did, and I was sort of going crazy, and I love those kids, and I love being at Virginia, but, you know, you have these moments where you win a championship, and you're kind of like, there was so much that went into that, I'm not sure if the, the reward, other than the relationships, is worth it, and I, And Murph would tell you, you get to a certain place and you're sort of focusing on that championship rather than realizing in the moment that it's really, it really is about these relationships. But when you're young and you're sort of going after this thing, you lose that point. We had a reunion in Charlottesville at Dom's house in the spring for that championship team. And I was reminded about how great those relationships were and how. special that time was and how it really was time well spent working hard with these guys because you have great relationship with these guys. But when you're young and you're, you know, feeling like, man, the only way I can be successful is to win a championship, it really does burn you out. I mean, it just, And you're not smart enough or wise enough to realize that there are other great aspects of what you're doing until you get some distance. And so the farming thing was really a blessing for my brother who offered me an opportunity to do that. I knew I was going to be done coaching. And then Kevin offered me a chance to do that and it was great and my dad was a teacher and I knew I would always at some point probably be a teacher. And so in order to do that I was going to have to go back to school because I didn't want to just be the teacher with his whistle around his neck and just doing practice plans while I'm teaching. You know, showing a film and geography class or whatever it may be. I didn't want to be that guy. I actually wanted to be a teacher and so it made sense to go to Mississippi because I loved Faulkner and then, you know, that just led to one thing being in Memphis and it's worked out. I'm really grateful to M. U. S. for giving me a chance and all these things have sort of fallen in line. And I, I do feel like it's the path that I should have taken. Yeah. You know, and a lot of guys have those stories. You just something inside you makes you want to change and make a move. And I've never been caught up in making money. And so it's easier to. make moves when you're not worried about money or that you don't have family that you have to support. So it was easier to do those things. And then you just end up where you're supposed to end up. And, and you know, my life is best measured, I think, by the quality of my friends like Murph and, and you know, all of these pathways that I've taken have really, they've been wonderful and they've made me who I am for better or worse, but the friendships that I've gained from each one of those steps have been probably the most important things. To me and I'm sure you saw the same way about muscle. Really appreciate that, Chris. Pete lasagna did write that article, by the way, if you guys want to check it out, just Google Chris Colbeck inside the cross from Peter lasagna, our former assistant coach. And I were laughing at the wedding with Dom saying, you know, I owe Peter I owe Peter I owe Peter Oh, it was Peter. The Piper pay the Piper name, Peter. Peter lasagna. What is this guy talking about? Tune in next week to find out.

Ron: 35:27

until we meet again, here to, hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the Get the LAX coop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.