S2 E24. A Fruitful, Field Of Dreams, 2X All-American & CEO of Harlem Lacrosse, Mike Levin, Part, III.

In this episode of 'Get the Lax Scoop,' hosts Big Dog and Jaybird interview Mike Levin, a former All-American goalie at Brown and current CEO of Harlem Lacrosse, an organization dedicated to transforming the lives of underserved children through lacrosse. The discussion delves into the journey of Harlem Lacrosse, its deep impact on students, and its mission to provide long-term mentorship and resources. Mike explains the strategic growth plans for Harlem Lacrosse, their commitment to diversity and inclusion, and the significant role of the alumni network. Additionally, insights into the contributions of corporate sponsors like New Balance and the necessity of representation in leadership within the sport are highlighted. The episode underscores the importance of consistent, deep investment in youth and the transformative power of sports in cultivating life skills and academic success.

00:00 Introduction to Lax Scoop Podcast

00:23 Meet the Hosts: Big Dog and Jaybird

01:02 The Impact of Great Coaches

03:04 Challenges and Successes in Harlem Lacrosse

05:17 Navigating Predominantly White Spaces

08:16 Building a Supportive Alumni Network

09:30 Diversity in Lacrosse Leadership

15:23 Harlem Lacrosse's Impressive Stats

22:55 Corporate Partnerships and Future Goals

24:43 How to Support Harlem Lacrosse

30:44 Final Thoughts and Farewell

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Transcript

Jay: 0:01

It's time for get the La Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know. In the game of lacrosse, we take LAX seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join hosts, big Dog and Jaybird, and the biggest names in the game. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Ron Doish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the sports found. and Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All-American Midfielder Brown. He was a captain of the US Junior National team and is the founder of J M L. And joining us in the studio, Steve gfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Helping the next generation cross players. Get to the next level.

1:00

Welcome back everyone. We're super excited to bring you the fruitful field of dreams. Interview series with Harlem lacrosse, CEO, Mike Levin. If you have not heard part one, N two. we highly recommend you go back and check it out because it was simply epic. You will find this interview Picking up right where we left off. It's interesting the way you think about that, Mike, because it's also like a fundamental to. When you get around a group of athletes of any kind and they talk about the coaches that really mattered to them, mostly it's about what they taught them about being a good person, right? And the sort of life skills and habits that made them successful. So in many ways, that's just what you're doing, right? And you're calling it Harlem lacrosse, but you're making sure these people have that, that mentorship and that leader that happens to be their coach as well. What you're describing is just really a great coach, like at any level in any sport. For sure. For sure. I mean, I just love sports for it because I think the, it's very difficult to create like the, the relationship building that takes place through the, like through the experience of a, of a sport, you know, like the, like, You were talking about my brown, you know, like losing to Syracuse in overtime. It's, you know, like that was a very emotional experience for me, you know, and like bonded me to the people who I went to, went through it with together. Right. Right. You know, or like working super hard, being like pushing yourself to be like, how hard can I actually work? That's like, it makes you closer with someone. So I think it's like so well suited for good relationship building upon which, and also it's a classroom for those lessons you're talking about, like. You know, what kind of person you want to be? It's like being a great teammate or like, you know How are you gonna act when the chips are down and or when you're not playing or you know? Like being really supportive of one another what is leadership? You know, I really struggle with that when I was a kid I was like really good player and I lacrosse is really important to me as was the other sports I played and I would get like frustrated with teammates a lot And I would like lash out at them or something. And I was, it was, it was so immature, you know, but I was like learning what leadership is and I need to sponsor that. I don't know where else I could learn that. So, so Mike, let's talk a little bit about what you do to prepare these kids who come from, you know, a lot of them from very different backgrounds and face challenges that many of us couldn't imagine. And then you, you know, you're trying to prepare them for success in these. Certain environments and I want to I want to before I get into my question. I want to preface it by saying I remember a tremendous story that Pat Cronin told us that to me is so much about the incredible perspective that you create and in in your little bubbles of Harlem lacrosse, but he was saying, you know, He, lacrosse was kind of his thing and all his teammates or the vast majority of his teammates were students of color. And so he just thought that's who played the sport. Like he didn't know any better. And he said his parents were going on, you know, take him on a vacation down to the Cape and they're like driving by all these fields and they see all these white kids playing lacrosse. And he's like, what, what's going on here? Who taught those kids to play lacrosse? You know? Like, I just thought that was such an incredible example. Of like how you're changing the game. Cause if we're all, we, you know, we all know that it's the sport we love. We learned so much, but it's just been a very white sport, you know? And so here you are serving a very different population that traditionally has been engaged in the game. And so getting to the question, what's been the challenges, Mike, that you all have had of, all right, I'm trying to take these kids out of an environment. And then help them get to an independent school or a boarding school or a college. And still many of those places are predominantly white places, very different culturally. So how have you had to think differently organizationally about preparing those kids for the whole perspective? Like I can get them ready academically, but then how do I get them ready to be able to manage in that kind of environment as minorities are coming from these Different places. Yeah. And I would add corporate institutions as well, because now we're doing like internship placement and, and, you know, those are different worlds to navigate as well, but we're, we're having great success there. You know, I think we're aided by the sport in a way, because it's, It's just something that sort of like grounds the whole experience and is hopefully a comforting place, but gives you an additional support. We have done specific programming oriented to what you're talking about. We've had like seminar series that are called navigating white spaces for students that are on their way to independent school or something. They're, they're most often, I would say the biggest theme is like Leaning on the network of alumni that we're developing. So there's a great nonprofit called posse, which this is kind of like their fundamental theory of change that if you're going to a place like that, but you have a group of students that can be your support system that has a similar shared experience to you. They're going to help you get through it and you're more likely to be successful there. And so we try to sort of like, lean on our alums a lot to say, like, Hey, this is what I experienced, this is what I went through. I went to boarding school, was like. School was really hard, I struggled in this way, but it took me a while to figure out how to access the resource, how to learn, how to ask for help, which was hard because it was kind of embarrassing and I didn't know, you know, or I knew that I was going to school for free, and not everybody was, so I felt a certain way about that, or, you know, spring break, people come back, and they're like, I went on these crazy vacations, and you're like, I live in an apartment with, you know, with my family and we share a bedroom or whatever, and it felt uncomfortable or worse versions, egregious things. I mean, I think the, the, the thing that I think about the most is like, okay, if a family member, like entrust us to the care of their child, and they're like, I'm willing to let you coach my kid. And I'm willing to let them trial lacrosse. You know, it's like kind of implicit in that agreement is that we're going to, this is, we're going to keep your child safe. You know, this is a safe place for your child. And it's not always that way. Lacrosse is not always safe physically or psychologically, you know and there's issues of race come up all the time. And so we try to prepare, you know, like something at lacrosse tournaments are another example of a place that might not be safe and are predominantly white. You know, we've experienced horrible things at lacrosse tournaments in my time at Harlem lacrosse. We maintain something called the bias tracker now, where if one of our students, like, experiences something that we think is like racial bias against them, we track it, you know, and we'll respond to the institution and say, this is what went on at your institution, we think you should address it. But it helps us keep track of places that we think are like really Like great places to send kids or great tournaments to go to or whatever. Hey, maybe they don't have the same values for us. Maybe it's not where we should be bringing kids. So I'd say like alumni and just being more like cognizant of it. Institutionally on our perspective to be like, we have to take this responsibility seriously. We want to set kids up to be successful. But the alums have been awesome. Like we have just like incredible network of alums that are. super connected to the program. So they're coming back. It's interesting coming from your world of like working in development at Brown or Moses Brown. It's like, it's like, imagine starting a school from scratch and being like, I'm going to build an alumni network. That's kind of what we're doing right now. So I hope in a hundred years, the job of running this is totally different where there's like, it's basically like more like that, where we have this alumni network out there that are really supportive of the cause. So Mike, I'm, I'm guessing you get a chance to talk to some different leaders in the game, you know, as we have in this podcast and you know, as you just described, well, while we've certainly made some progress in terms of the diversity in the game, we've got a long, long way to go. And so what are some of the things, you know, you've got a unique window into these challenges. So what are some of the things you talk about more broadly with leaders in the game about the work we have to do and some of the key things that are important to continuing to grow the game? Yeah. I think representation and leadership is really important. And I think it's quite an easy, you know, it's quite an easy thing to defray responsibility on. You know, so you've got, you run a club lacrosse team, or if you run a college lacrosse program, you know, you have certain power available to you, you know, just like I do, I have to, I have power, some power over the people who are here, who we hire, who we recruit to our board, and how we deploy our budget. And the same is true for a college lacrosse program. So it's one thing to say, okay. We think that racism is bad and it definitely shouldn't happen. We know we're not, we're not the kind of people that would use a racial epithet of lacrosse tournament. So we're definitely part of the solution or we're definitely not part of the problem. That's different than being part of the solution. You know, so are you willing to make a different decision when it comes to hiring or recruiting because you think it's important to have more people of color represented at your institution and you value that as part of what they are bringing to your program? Or, or is it sort of like, do you want to say, well, I just have to win lacrosse game. It's a tough position to be in because the college cross coaches get fired all the time and you're like, man, I just have to win lacrosse games. That's the only thing that matters. I'm only going to like recruit people that are going to help me win lacrosse game or that I perceived are going to help me lacrosse games. If we do that, if what I'm saying is if leaders in the, in the lacrosse industry are not cognizant of it, it's more likely to perpetuate. Because we're not doing it on purpose, intentionally cultivating a next generation of leaders. But I think if we, if we can sort of like develop a new generation of leaders, like how many people of color are coaching college lacrosse right now? You know, it's a really small number and it's, it's not representative of the number of people playing lacrosse, but it's, if you, to me, I, my conclusion is if you're a college lacrosse player thinking, okay, I might want to coach. You're not, there aren't that many kids thinking that they're like, this doesn't seem like the place that I want to pursue a career. But I think the coaches association should be more on top of it. I think they should be saying we think it's our responsibility and not that they're doing nothing. There are, I think some really great leaders in that group, but I think that's the kind of thing that we need to be more assertive about as it is like, because I know for our organization, you know, Harlem across the majority minority staff. So. Like there are more like people of color who work here than there are white people and That was you know, of course intentional or you know, not unintentional and Our racial equity lens or racial equity skill set is much sharper having a lot more people of color here And I hope that it's helping us program better. I hope that it's helping us You know make the experience better for our kids and families But we wouldn't have been able to get there unless we had more people in the leadership structure of the organization. So I think that's something that I'd like to see more movement on. You know, I'd like to see somebody say, like, I really want this to, you know, take a long term view to be like, I hope in 10 years there are more people of color going into coaching. Launching club lacrosse programs, working in industry, you know, working at places like problem across working, you know, joining boards and stuff like that. So I think that's, I don't see enough representation at the leadership level of minorities. Right. Well, hopefully over time that changes because, you know, from, you know, we had the CEO of USA Lacrosse on, Mark Riccio, to, to Bill Tierney, to, to whoever. It's like lacrosse is such a good vehicle to teach kids discipline, teamwork, and then it can help them get into a better school than they probably could have gotten into on their own. That was certainly the case for myself, but I'm sure it was for Ron. For God's sakes, but so, you know, so for that model, that's why it's just so great taking that principle the way you have applied it at Harlem lacrosse and just, You know, super challenging, but it's it's been super successful, and I think that's probably the next step is to get that representation at the next level, and that will attract even more people of color more minorities into the sport as well. When you see minorities coaching it, you just feel more comfortable. And it's a safe place for you to be. Yeah, I think so. I think it will unlock a lot for the sport. And I think I should say that I think lacrosse is doing a lot of right. You know, it's mhm. Compared to other sports that are predominantly white, there's, you know, I know your orgs for us, you know, there's great work being done in squash. They have a really strong network across the country. There's some, some good work in rowing. But, you know, in terms of a sport that is traditionally white, I think like lacrosse is, I'm, I'm feel much prouder about what's happening across than I do in like tennis or golf or hockey. Because, and I meet people all the time who are super successful, smart people that have lots of resources. And they're like, this is the impact I want to make in the world. And that's like, I think it kind of a. It says a lot about the sport. You know, I just don't know the same in every sport. If I was doing this for baseball, I don't know that I would be having the same experience. But baseball, Harlem RBI is an amazing program and they're raising tons of money. So they're obviously doing something right. But I think it's just like people have a unique connection to the sport. And there are certainly enough people who are like, Hey, I want to make, I want to make the world more equitable. And I want to make the lacrosse world more equitable that we're able to have a budget of 9 million. And, you know, serve 1, 200 kids a year. And there's lots of other orgs that are doing great work in our sport too. So I think we've got a lot of, a lot to be proud of in lacrosse. Absolutely. And what are some other stats? I know looking at your webpage, there was some very impressive stats, just like the ones you just rattled off. Is there anything else you'd want to throw out there? Well, I think for us, like we really believe in depth over breadth. So like the most important thing to me is the number of graduating seniors every year. You know, retention in the program for the longest time. And I think those are the kids who have the biggest impact. So today we're graduating 61 kids a year. That's been true for the last three years. Next year's class is 99, the following year, we have 153. And after that, we think we should be about that size every year. So there's about 300 kids that have graduated high school as Harlem lacrosse alums, but in three years, then there'll be 400 kids every year in college, every single year. So that's exciting. I think we're on the precipice of kind of like, just seeing the impact of like, long term participation at our current footprint, you know, at this scale. And that I think can be exciting. Unlock a lot, like obviously we care mostly about like our, we're not really about changing the game. We're about like the impact for each student. But I think right now about 55 percent of the kids who are graduating high school are playing college lacrosse. It's amazing. A similar percentage are the first in their family to go to college. And there are a lot of overlap between those groups. Right. So if we have 150 kids a year going to college and 75 of them are Playing college lacrosse. It's like that would be like meaningful for the college lacrosse landscape. Right? Right. Diversifying the landscape. Yeah. Hopefully, you know, more leaders like Pat and stuff who are kids who have come up with the program. Someone will take my job. I hope that is that has come up through the program board members donors.

Jay: 17:29

How about if we transition to. J m l and let's do that.

17:34

At J McMahon lacrosse, we're excited to announce our second straight year of donating to Harlem lacrosse. It is a fantastic organization. As you have been hearing with this. Interview series. If you're interested. And donating to this organization. Go ahead and look up their website at Harlem lacrosse dot O R G. There you will find a donations opportunity. And now you will hear a bit more from our sponsor. Speaking of no guardrails that so many of our listeners describe the college lacrosse recruiting trail. So we've responded by putting excerpts of our 10 best interviews with legendary coaches, such as bill Tierney, Lars, Tiffany and Andy towers. Into a book that you can access for free on our JML app. Simply download the J McMahon lacrosse app at the apple app store or at Google play for Android and check it out. And for those. Who would like a book in their hands? Or on their Kindle, it is available on Amazon, under the title inside the recruiting game insights from college lacrosse coaches. So with that, you will see the description of these items also in the show notes. And due to popular demand, we have put together a Patrion page for the show. This will allow those interested in supporting our efforts to do just that and to get exclusive access to unedited interviews. Big discounts on the JML online courses and merchandise from our new online store. Big additions to the JML course catalog. Now we have a defenseman's course taught by none other than UVA head coach, Lars, Tiffany, and a goalie course taught by former two-time All-American and UVA assistant coach kept Turner. And as the summer is just starting. We are offering for a limited time only. 70% off. That's right. 70% off of our four week online courses that help young players take their skills, mindset, and max IQ from good to great. That means you can get access to these highly rated trainings for only$90. That's right. For$90 offensive players defensemen and goalies can take their game to the next level. The summer is the best time of year to improve your game. And that's why we are making this special offer. So jump on it now because it won't last for long. Simply download the free version of the Jane McMahon lacrosse app. Or just follow the link that's listed in the show notes. And you will see the coupon code noted for each different course. And finally, if you're enjoying this show, please share it with a friend. Our growth depends on our listeners. So please tell others about it and spread the word. We're excited to get back to our interview and you will find that interview in progress. And so yeah, it's hopefully I'm looking to like the seemed like the program targets a lot of kids who have learning disabilities. and challenges to begin with and the fact that they're graduating at a higher rate than everyone else in the school and moving on to college and things like that. It's really amazing. Yeah, we definitely want to be targeting kids who are struggling or for whom their education is not meeting their needs, you know, because it's, it's amazing how many, this, I had this conversation with a kid recently, an alum, and I'm like, so he's working at Bank of America. He went to college. He started playing when he was in 10th grade, and I said, Eli, you know, what was it like, what were you like when you came in the door at Harlem Lacrosse? Mm-Hmm. I was an 82 student. I was like, oh man, that's, that's like the average GPA of a Harlem lacrosse kid about, so you're presenting as an average student walking around the schools of, at Frederick Douglas Academy in Harlem, looking average to everyone. And I now know him as a 22-year-old man to be like far from average, you know, he's an exceptional kid. Mm-Hmm. So then he is in school, the, the program director's like, Hey. I think independent school could be for you. Do you want, do you want to do it? He's like, his mom was not involved in his life at that time. His dad was super busy. They were living, I believe in public housing. And he's like, it sounds like a good idea. I can't really support you that much because I don't know that much about it, but you're a good kid. So he goes to independent school. He's like top student Westtown, a leader on campus, goes to Haverford, plays lacrosse for four years. And He's one of his friend's dad after a lacrosse game. He's like, Hey, what are you doing this summer? He's like, I'm not sure. He's like, I think you should apply for this internship bank of America. That's where I work. The kind of thing that would definitely happen to me at Brown, but would not have something like Eli growing up. So he's like, I'm just like, okay, you're at, you looked average and now he's working at bank of America. He's, he's about to launch an incredible career, you know, and I hope that he raises his family in Harlem or starts a business or joins the board of Harlem lacrosse. And someday, but I just think about he, it's like society's missing him. If he's just looks average, the average student at FDA is, is not graduating from college, but he just looked like everybody else, you know, it was just like, and those kids who are struggling, your school, your question was, are you alluded to the like special learning needs? It's like. You know, some kids are presenting a certain way and it's just a little bit of extra support and guidance and a little bit of resourcing It can just like unlock so much for them so That's kind of you know, what I what keeps me up keeps me, you know Good reason to go to work every morning. Great. That's awesome. And I'd seen about, you know, you mentioned the New Balance partnership, and know that there's a partnership with the PLL, the Pro League, and then I'd seen more about this Dick's Sporting Goods partnership, and pretty, pretty amazing stuff. So, you know, maybe tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, well New Balance, I think, is like in a league of their own. They they were doing this for a long time, you know. I, I probably. wrote my first grant application to New Balance in like 2009, I would say. And so they've been funding my existence and the work that I've been doing for a long time. And at really significant levels in ways that other orgs were not, and not in a way that, you know, the culture of their organization has always been a bit understated. Like the, the foundation, that they're, they're not doing this to, they're not typically like marketing the, the philanthropy. They're just, they want the work to happen. And there's really amazing group, but it's, it's really fun to, to meet different institutions at this point. Corporate giving is about 20 to 25 percent of our annual revenue. And it's across other industries too, that are not like consumer facing. So, you know, like HPS or KKR large financial institutions that are really incredible partners to Harlem lacrosse. And I enjoy meeting. Corporate leaders that are like, you know, they think of part of their responsibility as someone who's generating great wealth and resources for themselves and their clients to like, you know, make their community a better place. Right. Yeah. It's been good. It's in the world post George Floyd. I think the corporate sector in general is thinking a little bit more about that. It's, there are some challenges associated with it, but it's, we've got some really awesome corporate partners for sure. Mm hmm. It's good. So Mike, as we, as we try to wrap up and really appreciate all your time, I want to give you a chance to talk a little bit about Harlem lacrosse and its future and you know, where you see the organization going, you were just talking about, you're at this tipping point, right? Of getting up to like that 150 kids a year, do you all have longer term growth ambitions, different regions, more kids? Serving those kids better. Like what's the, what's the strategic outlook for Harlem lacrosse. And then, you know, we need the advertisement for how people can make a difference like as we finish up here. Yeah, for sure. So yeah, we for the. For the last four to five years, our emphasis has been really about serving kids for a longer period of time. So when we were adding programs, that we're adding high school programs on top of middle school programs, and we've been resourcing like our college counseling services. And just to throw in there, I didn't do as good of a job as we did with Pat Cronin, because you're taking kids on at like fifth or sixth grade, right? And taking them all the way through high school. And then some of them are going on to college and a lot of them are going to college. And you're, so, I mean, it's a long, long relationship. It's really amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think some of the challenges that we're working on are serious problems. You know, like the education system in this country is not meeting the needs of every person, you know, and it's not because people aren't trying to smart, hardworking people and lots of money being spent. But so we think that to really make a difference, it's, it can't be superficial. You got to be at, I mean, that was kind of a knucklehead at one point. And he's still somewhat of a knucklehead, but like, where it's just like, Hey, I mean, he was an exceptional talent, but he. Like, I mean, he was prone to some poor decision making as a middle school student. But like and his problems, he's a tough kid. So he was like, sometimes that results someone else being hurt. So I'm like, he can't be doing this anymore. But it's, if you're with it, we really believe in that long term. That's an important part of our theory of change. But So we that's where we've been spending spending our money and effort is to try and serve kids longer. But I think we're and also simultaneously how to like, build a business infrastructure that can support an operation of this size. So, you know, to have 63 employees to be able to raise, you know, 9 million, you know, hopefully 10 and 12 and 15 in the future. So like how, what resources you need to actually be able to do that in a sustainable way. How do you manage data in your organization? How do you manage like risk in your organization? All these sort of like, it has to be, we've been investing in that and investing in serving kids over longer, not investing in necessarily in serving more kids. But I think two years from now, I'd really like that to change where some of those things were starting to get leverage on the business infrastructure more and it, and you know, we're really looking a lot more aggressively at more, more kids, more Harlem lacrosse. Now, I would say we're right now. I think we're a little bit more likely that that means to be more Harlem lacrosse in our current regions. But that's a question that's like, you know, we're really talking about the board level. Now, sort of like what, what are the advantages and different disadvantages between growing within a region versus unlocking a new region in order to be successful for both those endeavors. So, but to me, two, two, three years from now, we need to have more kids, you know, there will be more kids, Marginally more kids over the next two years, just by virtue of the pipeline being filled, you know, like our, our younger classes are larger than our older class. So when you graduate 60, but the incoming group is 150, it's, you're going to get a little bit bigger but not because we're like adding a new program or something like that. But I think that's two, three years. I, I, my hope is that we can be Talking more aggressively about budget growth and program growth, right? So mike, how can people who are listening to this and really inspired by what you do? How can I help? Yes, you should go to the website for sure and watch the dicks video that that just came out It's on our website or you can find it just by googling. It's really good to get a little sense of what we're doing. You can of course donate, you know That's sometimes people downplay the importance of the financial donation that I want to do more than just money It's like the money is really helpful We invest about five to 6, 000 a year in a student, 40, 000 over the course of their, over their experience. It's not a crazy amount of money, but you know, the average student is earning 50, 000 a year in college scholarship in the four years post their high school graduation, and then their earning potential is much higher. So there's, there's a pretty big financial return on that investment over time, but that's relative to other interventions, that's pretty deep level of investment. You know, we're about depth versus breadth, and so I don't, we don't hide from that. It's like we are here to make deep investments of our kids and we say to them, we believe in you. We, we know that you are worthy of this investment. And so we want people who also believe that. And so we want you to make a donation for sure. We want you to reach out to me or to a local leader. If you're in one of the Harlem across region and say, I want to come see programming. I've heard about what's going on here. I want to support it. I want to come see what I want to meet from across student or family member and I want to meet a program director and I want to learn a little bit more about it because I think that's how, that's what leads the best the best things long run, you know, in terms of a way that you can get involved and say, first, first come see what we're doing. Come talk to the leader in your region, whether it's the local executive director or me. And come out and check it out. And then we will cook up some great ideas for how we can help kids with a bunch more money and we'll figure out how to get it, you know, right. Love it. I love it. Yeah, great stuff. Yeah. Mike, we're really grateful to have you here. And it's awesome to hear the work that you've done and how you've gotten to this place. Absolutely. You know, in a world that's seems like it's coming apart at the seams at times, it's good to see good work is being done. No doubt. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about it. We don't often do it. It's a very like head down. We're kind of a head down org, you know, just like, we're Do the work. And sometimes I think to our detriment that we need, we need to talk about it a little bit more, but also helps you appreciate it just a little bit more. And yeah, I think your point about the world, it's, you know, my work has, you know, obviously I'm like a left leaning person. I'm trying to address society's issues, but I am like a capitalist, you know, like I believe in capitalism because it's. Like it generates resources which can solve all kinds of problems It allows us to kind of like be bold and ambitious say like, okay, could we have a 20 million dollar organization? That's a lot of money like or everything's relative. That's one thing I learned in fundraising a lot But it's like it, you know, it's it is possible, you know, we just got to do the work and go find find it and that's Trying to maintain alchemism about the whole thing, you know at times when the world seems you You know, less optimistic when you're like, okay, I'm not quite sure Congress has it together to like solve some of the issues. It's like, okay, I believe that. But also, maybe we can just do it on our own. You know, it's like, we can just, there's lots of smart people out there. And if we come up with the best ideas for how to help kids unlock their potential. I'm confident we can find people to, to support that at a high level. So, Absolutely. I like it. Good stuff. Well, thanks so much, Mike. Really, really appreciate it. And you know, spent what you went over time here. We owe you overtime. No, we're sorry. No, not at all. Well, thanks a million. Really appreciate it. It's a lot of fun. Mike, thanks man. Great to see you. Yeah. Good to see you too. All right. Keep doing the work.

Ron: 33:13

until we meet again, here to, hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the Get the LAX coop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.