S2 E8. Acorns Don't Fall Far From the Tree; DIII COYs Steve Koudelka & Brandon Childs, Part II.

In this second installment, of our three part interview series, with two DIII Coaches of the Year, Steve Koudelka and Brandon Childs, we get into brass tacks regarding college lacrosse recruiting. 

Coach Koudelka describes how his opinions were formed over many years by lacrosse greats such as Dom Starsia and Dave Urick. He also elaborates by describing a key age for players to really hone their skills and it's probably not the age you'd imagine. 

Of course, Coach Childs reveals his secret sauce but also goes onto describe what it is about Coach Koudelka that has not only made him successful but how he has imparted that knowledge to former players and assistant coaches which has resulted in what many have described as the most impressive coaching tree in DIII lacrosse. 

These two also give us a peek behind the curtain so to speak as they give us some insight into what college coaches do for fun and how their competitive juices flow even when they're not on the job.

If you enjoy this episode and want to hear more, you can support the show by subscribing,  telling a friend, and writing a review. Also, you can show your support by joining our Patreon page, checking out our online store (links listed below),… we’d really appreciate it!

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Transcript

Jay: 0:00

It's time for get the La Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know. In the game of lacrosse, we take LAX seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join hosts, big Dog and Jaybird, and the biggest names in the game. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Ron Doish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the sports found. and Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All-American Midfielder Brown. He was a captain of the US Junior National team and is the founder of J M L. And joining us in the studio, Steve gfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Helping the next generation cross players. Get to the next level.

1:00

Hello everyone. And welcome back to the show. We are super excited to bring you the next interview in our three part series with division three men's lacrosse coaches, Steve Kudelka from Lynchburg and Brandon Childs from York college. You will find this interview right where we left off after our first interview with these two lacrosse legends. And if you have not listened to that, I would recommend highly that you go back and do so. It was a doozy.

Jay: 1:29

How about if we transition to. J m l and let's do that.

Dawg: 1:34

So, so Guys, nothing Jay enjoys more than me going off his proposed question script. Oh God, here we go. Here we go. Watch

Jay: 1:42

out guys. So. Harper on the

Dawg: 1:44

coffee. Steve, I'm, I'm wondering what, you know, you clearly, Brandon talks about, your energy and your enthusiasm, not just for coaching, but for competition. And you've stayed at one place all these years and clearly still have that passion and that energy. What's kept you there at Lynchburg? No. How many people these days stay at one place that long? And then what, what still motivates you to get out there and do this every day, day in and day out? What, what do you still love?

Steve: 2:18

Well, to go back to your first question about the, the longevity, I think we moved around, we moved around a lot growing up you know, by, I mentioned you before. You know, there's probably four or five moves before Wilton, Connecticut. And so I had a brother that was seven and a half years older than me. And my, my parents rule was when we got to high school. My dad would stop transferring places and it was not in the military. I worked for a company called Union Carbide and and that would kind of put the pause for till he graduated high school. And so Houston was for a while. My brother graduated, went to Rice. And then we, then we moved again and moved again and finally settled in on New Jersey. So. You know, my grandfather, I had a grandfather who was a long time principal at Tom's River South High School down the Jersey shore. And you know, every day at lunch, he would leave school, walk down to broad street and go home with, with, with his wife and have lunch and then walk back to school and go through the afternoon activities and watch the high school football game on a Friday night. And there was something that like kind of was Brandon was talking about going to top star camp. I remember just going to visit, you know, my, my pop up and. Just thinking like that was like the coolest thing, you know, that he'd been the long time principal and and, and just to, so the longevity of that was always something that you know, when I took the job at Lynchburg, I didn't, it was part time the salary was not great. My parents were wondering what I was doing, but but I believe now I've been here 28 years and this is a pretty cool stat. I was actually telling someone this today that. I've, I've worked under three pre only three presidents and only two athletic directors. So, University of Lynchburg, Lynchburg College is now the University of Lynchburg is kind of, There's a ton of coaches in our athletic department that have been here a long time. And so I think that there's something here that kind of keeps you here. And it's a place that you can kind of be who you want to be. And at big dreams that we, you know, we want to win a national championship. We've been to that game one time. Our baseball team just won it. Our women's soccer team has won it. Our men's soccer team has played for it. So We have some pretty high aspirations here and it can be done. And, uh, and it's a, it's a great place to live too. It's a great place to raise a family. And I think from my standpoint as being a son and thank God I had sports. Cause that was kind of your way into these different, you know, different towns you lived in and to know people.

4:38

Um, and that's probably, you know, where some of the competitive fire was. Cause you, you kind of had to prove yourself, you know, every couple of years you moved to a new town and all right, who's the new kid, you know? And, um, And, but, but for my own children, we have three children and, I, I've always, I've, I've cherished the fact that they've been able to grow up in one town, one community and, um, and you know, they don't, they don't think that all the time, but, uh, I do think the delayed gratification of that might really pay off. And, uh, I'm glad that they call Lynchburg home. Yeah.

Dawg: 5:11

Thanks for sharing that coach. That's great. That's awesome. What about, so what about this guy, Brandon Childs, 28 years, you know, You've been there and to see him grow into a coach who's now breathing down your neck, Steve, you know, having the same kind of success, getting to these, you know, NCAA quarterfinals, pretty consistently there at York. What's it like watching someone, you know, one of your players grow into that, that kind of a coach.

Steve: 5:38

Uh, it's awesome. You know, I mean, Like, like, like coach alluded to, we talk all the time, you know, and, um, you know, we've both had tough losses this weekend and we were on the phone this morning, about nine o'clock and, you know, kind of picking each other up, you know, and, um, that's great. And, uh, you know, so that, that, that's the beauty of our sport. Right. And so, um, I couldn't be, you know, when I was at Eastern, um, then got the job at York and, and, uh, you know, played in some big games and won some awesome conference championships and, uh, there's nobody, you know, there's always like, You know, there's a couple of scores I always check, you know, on, on Saturday. Um, and I, I, I'm very fortunate to have some, some other former players that, that are coaching at certain schools. And, uh, you know, but York is definitely one of the first ones I'm looking at, you know, cause I, I know that I know coach and I'll be talking on Monday and, uh, you know, the hope is that we win and we're in a, and I'm in a good mood and, and, and Brandon wins as well. We're both in a good mood and we can talk about how, how great our teams played. And, and, um, But also just learn from each other, you know, I think that's, you know, we've played against each other a bunch. Um, you know, he's whooped us several times and, uh, you know, and that's, it's kind of nice getting on that phone on Monday and be like, What'd you see? You know, why, why were you able to score all those goals? What, what, how did you play such great defense and, um, and learn from it? You know, he's a great coach. His record speaks for itself. Um, he's got one of the best minds, you know, you give him six guys and 30 seconds, that ball can find the back of the net pretty quickly. And, um, I've always been super impressed with just his mindset from a, from a playing days and it makes perfect sense that it all translates into, uh, into the, in what coach has been able to do there at York.

Jay: 7:19

Nice. And Brandon, you know, as we mentioned, and I've seen a few articles on it, that coach Steve here does have a very impressive coaching tree. And there's just a number of guys out there coaching college lacrosse that were either players or assistants for him. And what do you see as some of the attributes from coach Steve that have made him so successful? And are there things that you're using and, and other colleagues of yours are using that, have helped, to make you guys successful as well?

brandon: 7:45

Yeah, for sure. I always tell people when they asked me about coach Koudelka is that he's just a great coach. I think you could, you could coach any sport. Um, and the team would be successful. And, uh, I don't say that to minimize like his, his lacrosse acumen, but I think his differentiator, there's a lot of people who watch a lot of film and there's a lot of people who can break down the game, but I think what makes coach Koudelka so unique is that, um, he understands people. He knows how to motivate people and he knows how to bring out the best in people. Um, and, um, you know, we kind of referenced his energy earlier. Um, you know, there's been times where I've gone and watched his team practice and the pace in which those kids are moving around the field. You know, I like immediately get back to my team. And I'm just trying to get them going, you know, what are you doing? Why are you standing still, you know, just trying to match that kind of energy that exists at a Lynchburg practice. Um, you know, and coach referenced earlier, like we, you know, we've played against each other quite a bit. Um, I've never cheered for Lynchburg to win more than when it's the game before York. Um, And because you don't want to get them off of coming off of a loss. And, uh, it's something that I'm really proud of. Um, you know, when I was a player there, um, with my teammates, but it's, it exists to this day, like, um, highly competitive, highly motivated. Um, you know, and so he, he just knows how to bring out the best in people and then above all else. And, you know, I think, I think just in today's day and age, like I think college athletics right now is in a, in my opinion, a troubling time. And, um, I think above all else coach is as moral. a coach as there is. And I would stand by that and anyone that knows him would stand by that. There's no shortcuts with him, whether it's game planning or practice planning or recruiting or budget or, you know, and to be honest, like as his assistant, you know, It could be a little bit of a pain in the ass because before you leave to go on a recruiting visit, he would remind you like, well, you can't talk to parents. You can't do this. You can't do that. You know? And it's like, I know coach you taught, you know, like. He, he, he is by the book, like there's the right way and there's the wrong way. And he's always going to do it the right way. Um, and, uh, and I'm, I'm, I'm so fortunate that I was able to learn under a coach who not only had the competitive, like fire in him, you know, to want to win. But then instilled in me that there's only one way to do it and it's the right way. Um, right. And as you like bundle all of that up, it makes for a pretty special, you know, mentor for sure. Um, so complicated, you know, like our relationship is, is, um, it's, it's got, it's, it's a long, long history here. So it's tough to put into words, but it's just this really cool blend of this like fiery guy. You know, who loves you all along the way, but, you know, instills all the right kind of, you know, um, cornerstones in, in you as a coach. Um, and so whenever you're in a tough spot, I mean, to this day, I always tease people, like if I'm mowing my lawn. You know, and I, I went out with the plan that I was going to crisscross the lines and, you know, it's getting kind of hot and I'm like, okay, one pass will do God. I'll think to myself, like, what if coach drove by, you know, I take the time, you know, like

Jay: 11:34

megaphone in this car.

brandon: 11:35

Yeah. So, I mean, there's some truth to that, that I know he lives like six hours away, but just what if, what if my chance, but even, you know, even today and this weekend, you know, we had a tough loss and, you know, You know, there's definitely elements of, you know, what, how would coach respond to this? And when you ask yourself that question and you have a mentor like him, you know, um, it's, it'll keep you on the right path for sure. That's great. Good stuff.

Dawg: 12:01

That's awesome. So guys, I wonder if we can shift gears a little bit. Um, you know, one of the things we like to do for our, um, our listeners, we got a lot of parents and even kids in the game and, and, you know, I'll just speak for me. There's so much bad advice out there about recruiting. And so Brandon, listening to you and, and how, You know, Steve approaches the recruiting and doing it the right way. I would love to get both of your perspectives on, on the recruiting piece. And so particularly if, so if I'm a young player, if I'm a parent, who's got a kid, Steve, what, what fundamentally are you looking for? You know, when you're going out, you've been doing this a long time. So you, you know, I'm sure you now have a sense of the kind of attributes that you're looking for, for your culture, for your program, that's going to bring success. What is important to you that you think a young player should

Steve: 12:57

know? Yeah, you know, I think, um, number one, I mean, I'm always, we are always going to be looking and, and, and Brandon's no different. We're trying to find the most athletic kids we can possibly find. Um, that, that's, that for me has always been number one. You know, I said earlier, I played, you know, three sports in high school. Um, we as a family and our own family of, of, of where, you know, my own children, we never let them, you know, every season was a different sport. Um, I just always believe that that's, the greatest way to become the best athlete you possibly can be. Um, and then at some point, You know, college, hopefully that becomes the time that you get to select that one sport that you can play. And, uh, but all those sports, you know, all those sports compliment each other. Right. Um, yeah, I remember coach Starza, you know, um, telling me, you know, back in the day when, when, when he was at Virginia and just kind of saying, you know, he had recruited, I think maybe the New Jersey high school football player of the year, you know, and, uh, And he was also the lacrosse player of the year. And it's like that, that kid is a phenomenal, ended up being a phenomenal player for coach for four years. And so it just makes perfect sense. Right. So I think my first, when I talked to families here in town and especially the younger, middle school, elementary school parents. It's like sign your kid up for something in the fall, something in the winter, let them play lacrosse in the spring and, uh, and then do something fun in the summer. You know, um, I just, I've always believed that. And, um, and we've lived it with, with, with our family. My wife and I have done that with our children and I think it's going to pay off. And, um, but at the same time, like, you know, with that being said, You get to that college, the high school level, it has become a lot harder, you know, from what, for all the different reasons, right? Whether it's, you know, obviously the sports specialization, AAU, the travel teams, the club teams, and people getting pulled, you know, club teams got to play in the fall and they got to play in the winter. And, you know, there, there's, there's a lot to untangle there. Um, I wish it, I wish it wasn't there, to be honest with you. Um, And, but at the same time, that's, that's probably the way it is. So, um, but I do think if you have the right system, you know, maybe I'm old school to this, but I just, I don't know. I just think that there's, uh, there's just some awesome stuff that you learn by playing these other sports that, that lacrosse skills will carry on. Um, and, and maybe you're going to be a little behind when you get to college and maybe that hurts you a little bit in recruiting. But, but I do think the most athletic guys stand out and, uh, it's fun, it's fun to watch that. You know, there's the gentleman right now playing for Notre Dame who played football, hasn't played in a while. Like he's one of, right away, he's one of the best athletes on the field, you know,

16:02

And I would like to add in here. One point that coach was too modest to mention, and that is that his son who is a senior in high school right now was being recruited to play college lacrosse and football, and was chosen to. play football at the university of Virginia.

Steve: 16:18

athleticism will always carry the day. Second thing I would say, just, you know, be really quick to it. When we go to these events, my biggest worry with all these events right now is they become showcases. Um, you know, back in the day you had like top two or five and top star champ camp and, you know, People competed, you know, people wanted to win those events. And now it's just, you go and you play three games and I don't know if you keep scoring. I think you just play, you know? And, um, I think if you do that long enough, cause soccer, the soccer coaches in our, in our school have complained about this over the last 10 years, that they almost need to reteach some of the young men and young women to compete again, because they're so used to this showcase model where you just play and Soccer, there's not a lot of scoring anyway, so it's a low scoring event anyway, but, um, you know, like, so playing for your high school team, now you're playing for a state championship and all those things, football, basketball, like, those things all mean, should mean absolutely something for you to play for your hometown and all that. Um, so if I can find a young man who on a Saturday afternoon at four o'clock is playing the game in a super competitive way and wants to win that game and stands out to me as I'm sitting on the sideline watching him play. We'll definitely try to recruit them. There's no doubt about it. Um, just cause I think there's, we can, we can coach the other stuff, you know? Um, but competi I just like people who love to compete. Uh, they, they, they fit, they, they work well, you know, um, in my world, that's for sure, you know, and, and Brandon was one of those guys for sure, but I'll let Brandon give his, his take on it. But those would be my two things. There's being athletes and being, being able to compete at a high level. Right.

brandon: 17:58

Yeah. How about you Brandon? Yeah, I mean, I think from, I think I feel similar to coach Koudelka, um, but to, to not just completely say what he said, I think the thing that's beautiful about lacrosse is the stick is the great equalizer. Um, so you can be, you know, five foot six and, um, you know, your, your, your stick skills. Can, can, can make a difference for you and can be the difference. And so when I go out and recruit, and again, I was an offensive player. And, um, and so probably I, I tend to look for stick skills as the kind of, uh, You know, right handed left handed, can he throw back, um, the, the direction he was going without having to roll away? Um, how does he throw the ball off of a pick? You know, how does he, you know, so, uh, the stick to me, um, is, is pretty important. Um, and, uh, and I think catching bad passes, you know, like, can you catch everything that's thrown to you? Um, because there's a certain sense of pride in that too. So I think both offensively, defensively in the middle of the field altogether, you know, the stick is, is, is your stick skills is going to be the thing that, um, may, may kind of hide some of what your deficiencies are. Um, and, um, And then I also think that like great stick skills also demonstrate to someone who's recruiting that you found someone who really loves the game. Um, you didn't just stumble upon, I've never met someone in my whole life who was proficient stick handler the first time they tried it. And so generally it's a pretty telltale that. You know, they love the game of lacrosse. Um, you know, they've got pretty good stick skills. So again, definitely want athletes, um, like coach said, and we definitely want competitors, like coach said. I think the next thing that I would add in, um, you know, is the stick skills

Jay: 20:00

How about if we transition to. J m l and let's do that.

20:06

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brandon: 21:28

As a side note, coach talking just to, you know, give some life to this podcast a little bit. Um, when I was in high school, I played on the varsity basketball team, but my role was essentially just to sit on the bench. Um, and we were not a great high school, um, basketball team by any stretch of the imagination. And when coach was recruiting me, he would call, you know, in the winter months and ask how basketball was going. And, um, he would get into these stories about him playing basketball in New Jersey and like, As a point card, and I remember one time hanging up the phone and thinking like, oh my god, like I hope to God he doesn't think that I'm any good at this.

Jay: 22:09

I better start practicing my basketball.

brandon: 22:11

Yeah, I was like, whoa, like, he's 6'5 in the point guard, I'm like 5'7 in like the 5th point guard, like. So, um, I had him, I had him fooled just because I was on the roster. He thought I was a better athlete than I was.

Jay: 22:26

Stick balls, more stick skills.

Dawg: 22:27

Are you accusing coach of on a recruiting call, just going glory days on himself and telling, you know, his own, you know, greatest game

brandon: 22:35

stories to his credit. It always came back to basketball. Yeah. One time at one time at top star lacrosse camp, um, one of coach's closest friends is a guy named Jamie Steele and, uh, Jamie Steele coached, um, for years and years and years is now out of it, but coach Steele was a teammate of coach Koudelka's at Gettysburg. And so we were at top star lacrosse camp and the current lacrosse coach at Ohio Wesleyan is about my age. His name is Mike plant hole and Mike plan holds not quite coach Koudelka's height, but close. And Jamie Steele is about my height. And so during top star, we played two on two basketball and the teams were me and coach Koudelka, the Lynchburg team versus Mike plant hole, who's my age and Jamie Steele. But because of the height, I had to guard Coach Steele, and Mike, you know, was matched up with Coach Koudelka here, and Coach Steele and Coach Koudelka, who were close friends and teammates, and the two most competitive people I've ever met in my whole life, were essentially playing one on one against each other, through the And so first deal is just beating the crap out of me and pick up basketball because he couldn't hit coach. Um, so yeah, that's, that's generally how it went with coach was, uh, if it was a competition in glory days, it was generally basketball or. Soccer, hockey, seldom did I hear much about his lacrosse, uh, career.

Jay: 23:58

That's classic. Good stuff. Good flavor there. I

brandon: 24:03

like it. Yeah, we got sidetracked.

Jay: 24:04

I apologize. No, that's great. We love stuff like that. Any stuff like that pops in your mind. Just

Steve: 24:10

one thing I would add to what coach is saying. Like, and I think this is the beauty of, of, of college lacrosse right now is that there's You know, the division one level, division two, division three, but like, there's so many, there's so many really good coaches and so many really good programs now then, and they all have like a little flavor to them, right? They all do certain things that make them a little unique. And so you can see when a coach is, you have a bunch of coaches sitting on a sideline and someone might do something that like, you know, might have five coaches write things down very good about them. Um, but then there's other, might be five other coaches that don't notice it at all because it, it's not what they see every day in practice. And so like, you know, you have certain, you have certain techniques and you have certain things and you're doing, and you know, um, you know, and I'm sure like, like, like York, you know, has been one of the best defensive teams in the country the last couple of years. And I'm, I'm, you know, Matt witcher, who's now at Dartmouth credible, incredible coach. And so it was coach Kennedy right now, but like, Those guys I am sure have watched and they see certain things that maybe my eye doesn't pick up at all. But they're like, you know what? That, that style fits perfectly in our system. And, and I think that's a big part of recruiting is trying to find like, yeah, you're trying to find maybe the coach and the assistant coaches and the school, but there's also like the certain style that you play, right? I mean, if you're, If you're a throwing quarterback, you're not going to the football team that runs the wishbone, right? I mean, you are, you want to go to where the coaches are going to let you use your talents. And, um, and I think that's been, that's been a fun part about recruiting as well as just trying to, you know, some coach might say, no, I don't want, I don't want this young man, but he goes to the other school. Lights it up and has nothing to do with the wand. It was just that system was gonna fit him his style better. And, uh, that that's a hard thing for a young man to figure out. But, but it's an important part of recruiting for sure.

Jay: 26:06

Right, right. Absolutely. And I know, as you said, when you first started at Lynchburg, it was a part-time program. And now it's evolved. I mean, over the years, the 28 years you've been coaching in division three, I guess it's actually 31, right? Cause you coached at Gettysburg for three years. So you've probably seen a tremendous amount of change and tell us a little bit about that. Ron, we're going off script a little bit.

Steve: 26:29

I think like you, I'm helping you grow Jay. I mean, you know, when I was in, when I was going into my senior year in high school, so that was the summer of 88, 1988. Um, that was, I think the first year that 205 existed. Right. Cause people

Jay: 26:47

talk about that. Me and Ron were in college

Steve: 26:49

already. So you guys were already there. Right. So like, yeah, that, that, that, that era. Top 2 0 5 with a coach semen and Coach Coddle and, and Coach Tierney, and then Coach, coach run at Towson and Coach Hanzi started Top Star and I, I'd always go up to P 200 up in, in, in mass where, you know, Greg Canella, you know, and, and mm-Hmm. Just some awesome people up there. Coach Bby, who's still at Springfield, who's one of the best people in, in our game. Mm-Hmm. They ran these camps and like they were the, that was the way to be seen, you know, and, and it was, and the best part about it and Brandon alluded to it, but like you went in the morning sessions was instruction. I mean, it was a two hour camp model, like stations, you're rotating. And as a young coach, like you're, I remember one year peak 200, I got matched up. Uh, my, my group for the morning was two other coaches. So I don't remember, but I was with coach. Yeah. And for the coach, you're under a rucked young kids. And it was like, I mean, you know, people get their master's degree. Like that was like a master's class for two hours. I took more notes, just listening to the drills he was running and how he was talking and what he was saying. And he was super funny. Uh, you know, he was great with the kids. Um, and, and that, that is completely shifted now where there's club coaches, they pay a lot of money, they plan a team, they travel around, they compete, they do all those great things. Um, with the understanding that they're already really good. Right there. The instructional part has kind of been lost into the probably the minutia of that 7th 8th 9th grader. Um, and that's unfortunate to some degree, because I do think, um, it may turn some people off at some point, but that's just that's just the way where it is. And, you know, Coach Childs has some young Children right now, so he's gonna, he's gonna live through it a little bit. But, uh, you know, that's just the way it is. And we've kind of just, Most sports have gone that way. You know, football is probably the one that has stayed away from it the most, even though they still do a lot of seven on sevens and those types of things. But, but basketball, soccer, lacrosse, baseball, softball, it's, It's run by clubs and those organizations. And, um, there's probably not an end in sight to that quite honestly, you know, um, which is crazy, you know, so, and, and, and what's even, you know, like brand alludes early with college athletics, like, you know, this past weekend caused a huge stern in college basketball because Kentucky loses, um, in the first round and, and. Well, you know, you can't, you can't, you can't build this programs anymore, 18 year old kids. And so now you're, you know, now you're going for the transfer portal, young men, and, and maybe the college basketball, trying to find those, you know, the team they lost to Oakland had, you know. Their average age of those guys was like 23 years old and the average age of Kentucky was 18. And now you're real, now what happens to that young man who's in high school and playing in club ball and, and are they just going to be bypassed because of the transfer portal and all, you know, everyone trying to secure the older people. So it's, it's a crazy time. Um, I don't, I don't have all the answers that's for sure. Um, but, um, but recruiting is shifted a lot in my time. There's no doubt about it from, um, and technology drives a lot of it as well. Which makes sense, right?

Jay: 30:23

Yeah. And one of the things that I really noticed, I've coached youth lacrosse for about 20 years and right at that age that you mentioned, that middle school age is where the kids just, it should kind of stop getting better. And it's because it is game after game. And then as the kids get older, they're going to showcase that. To tournament to showcase and it's like, where are the skills? You know, it's like when they kind of think that they are playing in all these games and they have a lot of team practices and they can totally understand it's a big time commitment, but how many shots are they getting at a tournament where the games are 40 minutes long and it's probably a couple and then you're just not seeing the improvement. So that's, that's where I think the individual skills are really essential because they're, they're kind of missing that with their club teams. All right. So that's one thing, you know, we had down here on our, our question list. And that's one thing that we've kind of focused on is individual skill development. And I know, you know, just like Dom's Georgia, Steve, you love having great athletes out there. And I'm sure a lot of these great athletes do have great sticks too. But what are some of the, the key skills? Like if you'll see. Kids are great athletes, but you know, and as Brandon alluded to a little bit too, if they can't really work the stick all that well at a certain age, like what, you know, what are the things you look for that are essential for skills for kids and what would you recommend they work on? Is the

Steve: 31:44

question. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's a, it's a really good question. I think, and, and Brandon, you know, spoke about several of the, the offensive ones, right. Like, you know, just, um, and, and it, it's pretty neat. Like I remember sitting with, um, Pete Milliman this summer and Pete's the head coach at Johns Hopkins and done a phenomenal job.

32:04

Do we hear how coach Steve Kudelka and coach Peter Milliman would answer that intriguing question, please tune in next week, as we continue with our series..

Ron: 32:15

until we meet again, here to, hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the Get the LAX coop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.