S2 E21. Can’t Keep Him Down: The High Flying Doug Knight, USA Lax HOFer, Part II

In this episode of 'Get the Lax Scoop,' hosts Big Dawg (Ron Dalgliesh) and Jaybird (Jay McMahon) dive into the rich world of lacrosse with their guest Doug Knight. Knight shares his journey from being the division one Collegiate Player of the Year at UVA to a coach and camp director. He touches on the importance of resilience, team synergy, and having a short memory for setbacks. The conversation also explores his coaching experiences, professional lacrosse career, and the philosophy behind running a successful multi-sport camp (One of the highest rated in the World!). The episode concludes with a lighthearted Q&A about Lake Winnipesaukee and historical facts about Camp Tecumseh.

00:00 Introduction to Get the Lax Scoop Podcast

00:28 Meet the Hosts and Guest

01:05 Journey to Becoming a National Player of the Year

03:59 Memorable Lacrosse Moments

05:35 Winning the 1999 Championship

12:44 Professional Lacrosse Experience

17:01 Coaching and Essential Skills for Young Players

18:57 The Demands of College Lacrosse

19:41 Balancing Youth Sports and Childhood

20:28 Navigating the Recruiting Process

21:23 Personal Experiences with College Recruitment

22:15 The Importance of Multi-Sport Participation

22:47 Insights on Club Lacrosse and Talent Discovery

26:32 Running a Sports Camp in New Hampshire

29:17 Quirky Questions and Fun Facts

34:07 Reflections and Farewell

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Transcript

Jay: 0:05

It's time for get the La Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know. In the game of lacrosse, we take LAX seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join hosts, big Dog and Jaybird, and the biggest names in the game. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Ron Doish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the sports found. and Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All-American Midfielder Brown. He was a captain of the US Junior National team and is the founder of J M L. And joining us in the studio, Steve gfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Helping the next generation cross players. Get to the next level.

1:05

Hello everyone. And welcome to the second and final installment of our interview with us. ILA D one player of the year, Doug Knight out of university of Virginia. If you have not heard part one, we highly recommend you go back and do so as you've missed how this USA lax hall of Famers, origin and lacrosse began and his athletic experience in high school and how and why he chose Dom starch and UVA. You will find this portion of our interview in progress. So Doug, how about getting back to. You know, the process, I think you were talking, Hey, it's not just about what I did before that season. It, this was a three year process of getting to 96. Are there other things that, that you felt sort of got you to that place? I'm getting a sense from you also, which is so important for young players, just that, Hey, great. Knock the stick out of my hand. I'm coming back at you like that resilience and compete and not getting negative. Thoughts into your head. So you talk a little bit more about again, that freshmen to national player of the year sequence. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think a really short memory for the bad stuff and just continue to build on the good stuff. Like I said, Dom and coach van and coach Murph were huge for me. Those first couple of years, first three years Michael and Timmy were incredible. They had a. Understanding and a synergy that just absolutely worked for them. And I was able to kind of slide into it with them. I mean, my freshman year, they had a couple of goals and connections that it was like, how did he know that that ball was coming? And how did he know he was there to deliver it? And that just worked really, really well. And it was. Very difficult for defenses to, I mean, pick your poison really, like you're going to try to cover, you know, Michael and Timmy with your best two guys or me and Michael or Timmy and I, and we, there was just, there, there weren't teams that had three studs that could sort of handle all three of us. And then to have guys like. Like Dave Wren, Dave Curry, Tucker Radebaugh. This is up to junior year, sort of Melchione was D MIDI, but man, he could play some offense pretty good coming down at you. Henry Occhi just phenomenal talents that it was, it was just a really nice offense to run and we would sort of beat you from all, all areas. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. So for people out there, just, just really letting that sink in. Like if you're, you know, Gagliardi was another US lacrosse Hall of Famer. And you know, a lot of players would go into a shell, you know, they get a complex, like I'm getting the stick knocked out of my hand to every single practice. I'm just going to stop going to the goal. Is that way I won't get the stick knocked out of my hand. So that's not the answer, right? If you're looking to become a great lacrosse player, you need to just have a thick skin and just not care, right? Just what you care about is I'm going to keep competing. I'm going to, I'm never stopping. Right. No, the other thing you said is playing with your teammates. I mean, you, that was a re. anyone. I mean, to this day, if a great attack has ever mentioned, that's the first attack that is mentioned actually. And they put, you guys played so well together. And and that's another thing for people to think about, all right, who can I connect with on this team, right? Who can I, you know, when I give him a little look, he knows that he's going to take a step up and I'm going to back up my guy and I'm just going to throw it into space. You know what I mean? Stuff like that. So I hope people are really taking that in because it led to some incredible success. Yeah, no doubt. There's a there's a goal out there. From, it was a tournament. I think I was like late thirties and I hadn't played lacrosse for a long time. How the money ball tournament in Atlantic City. And we were trying to, we got a bunch of old UVA guys together. And we were trying to win 25, 000 for Chris Sanderson's family, who Chris had just passed away at the time. And we ended up losing in overtime in the semifinals, but thankfully the Canadian team won it and they donated the money to Sanderson's family as well. But we had an overtime game to get into the semis or the finals. I don't even remember. No, no, sorry. We lost that game in the semifinals, but we tied it late. With, it was Michael Watson had the ball. We, what we ran an old play where I popped off the crease. And I dropped the ball on the feed from Billy Gladding and, but so it went to a scrum ground ball and somehow I came out of there with it and threw it to walk and he was kind of carrying up the right wing and he looked at me. And I literally said to myself, Holy crap, he's about to throw me an alley oop, which I don't think we ever did in college. And he just fired the ball right to the low left crease. And I dove, caught it and put it in at the same time. Like I literally was 39 years old. It was the craziest thing ever. It's out. There's a video of it somewhere. Still. I've seen it barely recently. I don't know how it gets sent to me every once in a while. But. But talk about like just understanding each other that was, you know, basically 20 years later and that understanding and confidence was, was definitely still there. That's awesome. Beautiful stuff. Now after graduation from UVA, you remained on as a volunteer assistant for that 98 99 season. And then it's that 99 season that you guys earned the first men's title since 1972. And in fact, a member of that 1972 team was on our show, Doug Taring. That's awesome. Yeah. Coach Terry is the best man. He used to officiate games. Right. Exactly. He actually still does. Does youth lacrosse. And he was my assistant coach for the under 19 team USA team. Doug. Wow. That's great. Not funny. Good stuff. And so anyway, back to you and your season. I thought dog would jump on that, but I, I was going to give it a rest, but, but Doug, did you see how naturally he did that? There's two things you can count on, on this podcast. One that we're going to somehow go to garden city, you know, like he's picking up those garden city guys who were two years removed, but somehow he's gonna, he's going to bring it in there. And that's somehow we'll mention Jay's participation in the U 19. It's organic. I mean, it's amazing. One degree of separation works into every single episode. What a magical, magical team. Anyway, back to our guest. Please, Ron, let's not get into it. As intriguing as it is. But anyway, back to that season. 1999. There you guys are. You know, I've been knocking on the door, obviously, for years. And so just tell us what that was like. And then, if you got any stories about that team or Dom or Van Hardsdale, go right ahead and let them loose. Yeah, so we, Coach Van actually left to be the head coach at Penn after my junior year, which was crushing. Because Coach Van was just amazing and understood the game so well. But couldn't have sort of been a better replacement in coach Chris Colbeck who was amazing. Oh, yeah he was also on that U19 USA team. Great guy, right? You didn't even need to put it in there yourself. It just came up organically. By the way, it makes fun of it, but honestly, it does come up organically every time I don't have to, Jay's going to be like, Oh, I forgot Mark van left. Who took his place? I mean, I, I think it was, it was inevitable, you know, when Dom got there in 93 that some national titles were coming to Virginia. And coach van absolutely laid the groundwork for it. But, but Cole's you know, it was amazing to have him as part of the coaching staff, my senior year ran our offense. And just a really, you know, blue collar, hard nosed talk about competitive fire. Holy cow, Chris, Chris Colbeck has an intense competitive fire. Love the guys actually getting married in under a month. I've never, never really taken a day off from camp in the summer. That's not true. My wife and I, every once in a while, we'll take about 20 hours or so and sneak away, but I am really hoping to be able to get down and back to Memphis, Tennessee on Saturday, July 6th to be at Chris Colbeck's wedding. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Well, tell him I say hello and congrats. I definitely will. Definitely will. Yeah, so he, he came in 97. And then after I graduated in 97, coached with him and and just sort of building towards that 99 championship team, had a tough loss in 98 to Kuse at Hofstra in the quarters. And Connor Gill came in as a freshman. This is Drew McKnight and J. J. Albers. You're here now. Ryan Curtis was a junior part of that amazing class as well. And Tucker Radebaugh was sort of the senior leader. Dave Baruch, Henry Oki was a fifth year. That crew, we just celebrated our 25th anniversary, which is where I saw you Jay recently. And it was great, great to sort of just be in back in touch with those guys. Over the last year or so, building up to the 25 year anniversary at the final four you know, a month ago. But yeah, just an awesome group. But really that the leader of that squad was Tucker Ray DeBlois. And he kind of took us to another level, his work ethic on and off the field was unmatched really anywhere I've ever seen in my life. So just a great, great group of guys that you know, it was amazing to finally get it done for Dom. That's great. Now, what was Tucker Redibaugh's leadership style? What was it like? So he worked incredibly hard in the weight room. He worked incredibly hard in any single, any, any running drill of any length or distance. And he would fight you for every ground ball and was probably the leading scorer on the team as well. And he would, he would get in your face and yell at you if you weren't doing things right and he'd pat you on the back if you, if you were so just an amazing person to this day, by example, huh? Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. And he coached as well. So I left after 99 and then he stuck around and coached with Dom and coach Cole's for a couple of years. Before we leave UVA your time at UVA, can you talk about, I mean, the one thing that the three of us all share in common is as much as we joke about, it is an incredible respect for Dom, you know, as a coach and as a human being and like all the best things of what you hope and coaches and what they teach you about life. And so I'm just wondering if you can reflect on what your relationship with Dom has meant to you, what are the things that he taught you as a coach that you've carried on and, and, you know, those other Dom isms that that have kind of carried forward and still ring in your head. Yeah. Gotta be choked up, dog. Yeah, I can't say enough about my relationship with Dom and how special he has been and important he's been to me in my time in father's day. You know, I've always considered him a second father. And Yeah, the, the, the one thing I always remember from him that I laugh about is Call Your Mother on Mother's Day and, and Valentine's Day as well and you know, he just take care of yourselves, take care of each other, is something I say here at camp all the time And, the things he, you know, that I remember he's doing for me over the years and then every once in a while I realized, oh yeah, he's coached thousands of guys and he does it for them too. And it just doesn't even think about it. You know, we've been, been out of, out of the coaching, the official college coaching game for what, seven years now, and he's still going and doing clinics. And helping this guy out and that guy out and, you know, maybe if they offer, he'll get paid, but he doesn't ask anybody to pay him. And Coach Murph and I, I think came to this conclusion probably 10 or 15 years ago. And, you know, all the D1 coaches are really competitive with each other. You know, certainly have a healthy respect for each other, but very competitive. I feel like if you took an anonymous poll, and you know, the D1 coaches over the last 40 years had to, had to tell the truth certainly more than two thirds would say that they want their kid to play for Dom Starsia. Just a really, really special person and an amazing person in the game of lacrosse and Chrissy too. She is a. Extra special for you know, taking care of the girls and Joe all that time when, when Don was away. So she's amazing too. And they're no doubt a great assistant coach to him. Thanks for sharing that Doug. And so let's flash forward a little bit to, you know, you were one of the guys who played back then and both the, the professional leagues, right, indoor and outdoor, and now. You know, I think all of us in the game love to see what's happening with the PLL and the way that's elevating exposure to the game. And then we got the Olympics coming up, but Doug, I imagine it was a little different back in your day. And so can you tell us what, what that was like, you know, and I, I say this with great respect, but being a professional athlete, cause you weren't allowed to just be a professional athlete, right. You're juggling trying to be the best players in the game and playing in professional leagues with them. needing to have a job to make enough money to survive, right? So just tell us about that experience and what it meant to you. And as you look back on it and then see where the game has gone just sort of your reflections. Yeah, it was the, I mean, the indoor game was such a flash in the pan for me and I never quite. I never quite fully put myself into it just because I did have a, you know a job and it wasn't like if that was my full time job, I could have really devoted myself to it. Just my style was not to be full time lacrosse. And if I had done camps and all that, you know, I just would have gotten burnt out. So I was teaching and coaching and doing that stuff. But the, the indoor game I had, you know drives up from Charlottesville and would meet Dave Evans at Woodbury Forest along the way and drive up and, you know, undoubtedly would have a couple of beers on the drive home. No, not with Dave. No, I can't imagine that happening. We, we, we, I remember we'd stop at some package store in Dundalk, you know, which was right around the corner. I'm sure Dave Evans knew, knew exactly where we were. I was like, you sure we were in the right area here, bud? Right. But those are pretty funny memories. And just a very different game. I guess, you know, the indoor game is probably pretty similar these days, but man, it was, I mean, there were spots where you would get cross checked and, and there was just nothing being called. And it didn't, didn't go near there. Cause you were going to get absolutely leveled. I'll never forget. I got in a fight with Brendan Shanahan, the hockey player, Brendan Shanahan's older brother. And he, I think he was like three inches taller and 30 pounds heavier. And the whistle blows and he kind of hit me and you got to go back at him and you don't want to be soft, you know, and all of a sudden, next thing I know, he is just pummeling me. And I was trying, I was trying to throw punches, but he just absolutely annihilated me. And then, and then we see each other in the, in the bar after the game. And I was like, is he going to throw a punch to me? Like, what's he going to do? And he just kind of gives me a beer and says, good fight. I was like, really? Was it really? Was it

Jay: 15:43

how about if we transition to. J m l and let's do that. We'll get into a little bit of the mindset. We'll do a mindset minute here.

15:52

Do they would like to talk about the importance of resiliency in sports and the powerful lesson of playing hard and giving it your all, even to the point of clashing. So fiercely with your opponents, that you're find yourself on the receiving end of a fistfight. But being able to shake hands and share a beer after the game. Or for your younger guys out there, a Gatorade. Resiliency in sports. Is about more than just bouncing back from a loss or injury. It's about the relentless pursuit of excellence, the determination of push through adversity and the unwavering commitment to give it your all. But to realize that this game and sports in general is bigger than we are. And no matter what happens out on the field. We need to let it go so that we can move on. And so the game can continue on with the real joy of competition. The real spirit, it was meant to be played with. This mindset is crucial, not only for achieving success in sports, but also for personal growth and development. Playing hard and giving it your all. Is all about living in the moment and it means putting everything on the line. Whether it's in during grueling training sessions, playing through pain or battling your opponents with intensity. It's about pushing your limits, testing your boundaries and striving to be just a little bit better today than you were yesterday. Y just a little bit. Because we can all focus on being 1% better than we were the day before. It's tangible. It's certainly attainable. And if you add up 1% after 1%, after 1%, Day after day after day, you're really going to get somewhere it's this level of dedication and tenacity that separates the good from the great. Sometimes in the heat of competition. Emotions run high. You might find yourself in the heat of the exchange or even in a physical altercation with your opponent. Well, we certainly don't condone violence. These moments can be a Testament to your passion and commitment to the game, but I'd recommend holding back. So you don't hurt someone or get hurt, not to mention. The fact is in today's game, you would get thrown out of the game and suspended unless you're playing in the indoor pro league. But the point is this story is a great example of what truly matters. And that is how you handle yourself after the final whistle blows. The fact that Shanahan and Knight shared a beer with each other after the game symbolizes mutual respect. It shows that despite the fierce competition, they acknowledged each other's effort and dedication. It reminds us that sportsmanship goes beyond the game. It's about building comradery. Recognizing that you're part of something bigger than yourself and understanding that your opponent is just as committed to the sport as you are. In life, as in sports, resiliency and sportsmanship are key. The ability to give your all confront challenges, head on and still maintain respect for those around you is a powerful lesson. That transcends the playing field. It teaches us to value effort. To give a nod to arrivals and build stronger, more supportive communities. So play hard, be resilient. And remember that even the fiercest competitors can find common ground after the game. And here's a few JML offerings. Speaking of no guardrails that so many of our listeners describe the college lacrosse recruiting trail. So we've responded by putting excerpts of our 10 best interviews with legendary coaches, such as bill Tierney, Lars, Tiffany and Andy towers. Into a book that you can access for free on our JML app. Simply download the J McMahon lacrosse app at the apple app store or at Google play for Android and check it out. And for those. Who would like a book in their hands? Or on their Kindle, it is available on Amazon, under the title inside the recruiting game insights from college lacrosse coaches. So with that, you will see the description of these items also in the show notes. And due to popular demand, we have put together a Patrion page for the show. This will allow those interested in supporting our efforts to do just that and to get exclusive access to unedited interviews. Big discounts on the JML online courses and merchandise from our new online store. Big additions to the JML course catalog. Now we have a defenseman's course taught by none other than UVA head coach, Lars, Tiffany, and a goalie course taught by former two-time All-American and UVA assistant coach kept Turner. And as the summer is just starting. We are offering for a limited time only. 70% off. That's right. 70% off of our four week online courses that help young players take their skills, mindset, and max IQ from good to great. That means you can get access to these highly rated trainings for only$90. That's right. For$90 offensive players defensemen and goalies can take their game to the next level. The summer is the best time of year to improve your game. And that's why we are making this special offer. So jump on it now because it won't last for long. Simply download the free version of the Jane McMahon lacrosse app. Or just follow the link that's listed in the show notes. And you will see the coupon code noted for each different course. We're excited to get back to our interview and you will find that interview in progress. And then, you know, the, the one that was 97, 98 and then when the MLL came out in 01, that was a ton of fun to be a part of living in Boston with Ryan Curtis. Tucker Radabaugh, I think Andy Towers. Man, there's a lot of brown guys around this this conversation. Towers might have lived with us for a little bit that summer. But that was a ton of fun. 2001, Boston Cannons. And then played 05 and 07. So not your typical professional lacrosse career. But 05 and 07 were really coach John Nostrand and Tony Resh. I think we're coaching the barrage and asked me to play being around those guys. Was a ton of fun, but I was kind of over the hill and not in great shape back then. I think I'd be a better player now at 50 because I actually take care of myself more and I'm in better shape than I was at 33 years old, I think which is kind of a bummer. But just different life experiences. I was married at that point and had kids and they were the most important thing in my life. And lacrosse has always been fun. And again, wanted to compete but didn't quite do it at the highest level. I think I would have been capable of. I wish Jay that, I wish Jay that we had some recordings of those Dave Evans, Doug Knight car rides. We could have had cancer cured by now if you recorded that stuff. Oh my god, well, and I love also the stop in Dundalk because Dave would quite often remind us that Dundalk is not Baltimore, dog. It's different. It's very, very different. Love it. That's great. Now following your two years of coaching at UVA, you taught at St. Paul School in Baltimore and then at the Haverford School up in outside of Philadelphia in Pennsylvania. And then then you did some time as the volunteer assistant there at Penn. And we always like to encourage young players to develop these essential skills, you know, outside of practice. So that, you know, you're not like trying to work on your offhand for the first time, you know, that you're showing up at practice and with all your coaching experience in high school and in college, what would you say are some of the key essential skills for young players to master, you know, so that when they're getting a team practice, they're getting to the tournaments, they're getting to the games that they're really able to shine. Yeah moving to St. Paul's School and teaching and coaching that was a ton of fun. Mitch Whiteley brought me to St. Paul's, who's Timmy's dad, and you know, I was a long time coach at St. Paul's and then with John Nostrand at Haverford School, Travis Loving and Mark Patron, that was an amazing group of guys. As well. And just, yeah, just working a little bit in each offseason. Again, as you, as you turn 13, 14, 15, lacrosse is your sport. You got to start working at it. You need an offhand these days, you know, unless you're coming down lefty from Canada and there's a special spot for you on a certain team that needs that, that particular position. You got to have an offhand and to be able to work on that stuff a little bit. So that, you know, you're not, you know, You're not nervous about it, and it's just sort of second nature when you get to the game situation is really, really important. I think what do you see is the biggest impediment to kids these days? And you know, you obviously know the way it happens today, which is very different than what we had. What's the biggest impediment? You see the guys who you think have it but just can't seem to get to that next place? Boy, that's a tough one. I I mean so as far as guys that want to play college lacrosse I always tell parents be careful what you wish for Because it is a full time job even at the d3 level. Yeah, and and kids think that they need to You know, I'm dealing at Camp Decompositor right now. Parents are telling me, you know I'll have a parent call and be really interested say, oh, you know We can't get there until four days late and I got to pick them up three days early You and I'm like, Oh yeah, I haven't asked this, you know, this person how old their son is yet. And it's because he's got to stay home for a lacrosse tournament or a baseball tournament or, or, you know, soccer stuff. And the kid's 11 years old. And I just, I, I real, my instinct, and I, I used to do this early on, but I kind of stopped because it's just sort of pointless. I want to tell them they're nuts. Because you need to let your kid be a kid. You have to come so that, you know, and we'll hopefully get into that with a question or two. But it's an amazing sports camp. But what I've also found in the last couple years is some kids that are great lacrosse players or great soccer players or great hoops player. They'll come up here and play something different. I'll have a parent say, make sure he gets up on the lacrosse field and, you know, throws a hundred times with his offhand every single day. I'll see the kid two weeks into camp and be like, Yeah, I remember Tommy's dad said he wants to play a lot of lacrosse. He hasn't been up there once, because he plays it the other 10 months out of the year, and he's so sick of it, he just wants to get away from it. So I, again, I mean, I'm a multi sport athlete my whole life and I obviously run a multi sport camp, so that's what I believe in. But I think that kids can do too much Too soon. And that will eventually hurt them in the long run. Yeah. Well, Doug, this is a great lead into a more specific question about your perspective in the recruiting process. And, you know, I, I, You know, I would say in the heart, this is an easy one maybe for, and I can tell maybe for you it is, but then there is just the reality of how it happens today, that you gotta, you gotta balance those, those two things of what you think might be best for a kid. And just being a kid with the realities of the competitiveness and the expectations. So, you know, how. Would you approach this with your own kids and the kids that maybe you're asking for your advice at Tecumseh or just out in the world about, you know, how many prospect days and showcases and summer tournaments and just what's your advice to kids who I'm sure come to you and say, look, I want to get to this place. How do I manage all this? Yeah, so just sort of went through it with my two older guys. My oldest just finished up a PG here at Westminster School. My middle guy just finished up at Radnor High School. And so a year ago today basically they would have been finishing up senior year and junior year. And I always told people, and I still tell people it all, it all works out. It all works out. Like, don't worry about it. You know, just keep playing, grinding. It's going to work out. But about a year ago, I was like, huh, maybe it's not going to work out for my guys, they want to play sports in college. And I don't know if it's going to happen. And. You know, fast forward to about six months ago, like it all kind of worked out. My middle guy's going to Drexel, going to play lacrosse there. My oldest is going to St. Lawrence going to play lacrosse there and has a dream to try and walk onto the hockey team. We'll see how that goes. But, you know, even if he works really hard and comes up short, that'll be okay. But, and they didn't play a ton of club lacrosse. Last summer was kind of a grind for my middle guy who's now going to Drexel. And he, he felt the pressure and he's a pretty darn good player. Just won the fourth straight state championship for Radnor high school last night, which was absolutely amazing. Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. Really, really cool. But they didn't, they were lucky to be a Radnor high school. So, you know, they could get seen a little bit. But last summer he played a ton of club lacrosse and thankfully you know, coach Volker was interested and he's going to be heading there. But I would tell people that. Real, like there's nobody watching you when you're playing club lacrosse in fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, 10th, you know, maybe 10th, they're starting to watch you. Right? But really only if you're one of the best 10 or 15 guys not if you're confident. You could be one of the best 10 or 15 guys in a few years. They're still not watching you. So it, and I know you gotta, you gotta get on this team cause you gotta, you know, you gotta pay your seat license in fifth grade, but you don't, like if you're good enough, they're going to find you. There's no doubt about it. If you're good enough, they will find you. And I've always told my kids that, and they were late bloomers. And they're both pretty competitive athletes. And then I have a 15 year old who's also an athlete. Decided not to play lacrosse a few years ago. My wife was pushing him for a few years. And I was like, he just doesn't love it, Jill, like the other guys do. And he grinds on the tennis court and plays some soccer too. So yeah, there's just a a sort of understanding that it's all going to work out. Even when it looks like it doesn't you know, my guys just you know, they love to compete all three of them. And it's just fun to watch. Well, dog, I'm, I'm excited that I mean, we won't be on the same sideline, but my, I got a brother who's 17 years younger than me. It was the head coach at RPI. So I've loved watching That Liberty league is just great lacrosse. And, and my brother's had some great games against St. Lawrence. So that, that'll be fun for your, for your son. And and maybe we'll see each other on a, on a sideline up north at some point over the next few years. Absolutely. I figured there was a relationship there. Definitely. I don't see that in that last name too often. No, well, it's a common name, you know, it's very common. I mean, we sort of came on to it late and We went up there and looked at St. Lawrence and I was like, wow, this place is pretty special Coach Mahoney and Tommy Ryan, who I played with with the Baltimore Thunder, actually one of the assistant coaches up there now, which is an amazing connection. But yeah, Liberal League was, was really strong this year. And I'm looking forward to being a part of that. Yeah. We've talked a lot with some division three coaches, just about the quality of lacrosse and division three. Like it's really, really good lacrosse. No doubt. So, so anyway, excited for your son. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about your older son's experience since he didn't really play much club, you said, and then his plan at D three St. Lawrence, which is tremendous quality lacrosse there, but just tell us, what was that like? Like, what did he do? What didn't he do? Just. So our listeners can hear and I'm interested to hear too. Yeah, he was always a hockey guy all growing up and loved ice hockey. Which was, was like I said, with my passion as well. And went to prep school, you know, hoping obviously to play, definitely play lacrosse, but hoping to play ice hockey as well. And didn't, you know, never, only one year and, you know, ended up playing a few games made the varsity team. And was an absolute, you know, stud in the Philadelphia area, but that didn't quite translate the coaches thought to to the prep school league, but did play a few games and actually looked great out there. But you know, it didn't work out for him and you know, he's a pretty good hockey player still. But now has decided, okay, I want to really sort of, you know, Force the issue here and see how good I can be in the sport of lacrosse. So it it, it, it is a, it's a story that is still being written and we'll, we'll see where it goes. Right. So is he being recruited by St. Lawrence while he was like in his prep school year or when did that, what it was? He started to reach out to some schools last summer. So start of his PG year. And you know, interesting enough, the, the, the top schools are kind of done by then and they don't even want to look at a guy like you look at his highlight tape. You'd be like, Hmm, this guy's pretty good actually. But when they're when their classes are full, you know, six months earlier, they just, they can't take any more guys. Right, right. I gotcha. Interesting. And then, you know, as you mentioned, you run this sports camp up in New Hampshire and looking at it online and talking to Tom about it's really high rated and would love to hear what that's all about. You kind of alluded to the fact that it's, you got multiple options with sports and I, you had said it's a seven week camp. Up in beautiful New Hampshire, are you right near Lake Winnipesaukee, you're right on it, or I'll let you take it for the lake out my window right now a little cove off the northwest portion of Lake Winnipesaukee, and it's absolutely beautiful up here. A really simple mission statement to make good boys better. And we love to compete. We love to play sports up here. We have a wood shop and an opera house where we do some Gilbert and Sullivan operettas each summer. But for the most part, we are playing sports all day long. And more important than, you know, obviously playing, winning is important to these guys, but just the lessons you learn through winning and losing. I feel like. For me, every lesson I've learned in my life has been through sports and a lot of them losing and it's okay. And how you carry yourself and how you you know, work with your teammates and look to get better from losses is really, really the most important part because, you know, there's not many. Current youth sport athletes that are going to be professional athletes, like it's a dream, it's a great dream to have but working towards that dream is what it's going to help you if, and when you don't actually become a professional athlete and have to get a real job in life. Right. Doug, how'd you first get involved there? And like, what's the path been to you now directing that camp? Yeah, so it's a big Philly area camp. And camp was started by Olympians and track athletes from the University of Pennsylvania in 1903. And one of those guys they, they, they were actually Canadian Olympians. And one of those people, Mr. Alexander Grant was the director for 43 years, the first 43 years of camp, and he worked at Episcopal Academy as well. So that was the big Philly area connection. And I'm the eighth director in 120 plus years. And they've, they've always looked, I think for someone from the Philadelphia area. So I was working at Harvard school at the time. The McBride family is a a Philly area family in there. Mr. McBride was the director in the late seventies, early eighties. And I went to college with Shannon. And so I knew them a little bit through Haverford school and I was able to get an interview and I think I was a bit of a dark horse at the start but had some people pulling for me. The Baruch family was a big Philly area family and Camp Tecumseh family, UVA people and Coach Murphy at Penn also helped me out a little bit there. And the more I learned about the camp and the more they learned about me we realized it was just a really amazing connection. Nice. Beautiful. That's great. Well, we have a roving reporter, another alumnus, Stephen Grisalfi. He usually comes on to ask some quirky questions, and he actually could not be here today, but he sent them to me, and they're pretty, pretty funny. Doug, did you take a look at the questions? I did. I mean, some, I mean, I'll say, Doug, that something that makes them funny is the delivery. And I mean, I'm, I'm just saying, we'll see how funny they are with Jay delivering the questions. So you can be the judge of that. No, no, Jay, I mean, this is, please, please. I mean, some of the questions are a little preposterous because he, he might try to stump our guests on something they know quite a lot about. Are these questions about me or are they questions of stuff in general? Doug, there's no, there's no you know, we don't give you any opportunity to prepare for these or any, you know, I'm glad you mentioned the editing piece of this earlier. Right. Exactly. Well, here we go. Here's a lead in Lake Winnipesaukee is home of one of the few remaining floating post offices. Run by United States Postal Service. What is the name of the boat that serves as the post office? That is the mail boat the mail boat the it is the mail boat. What there's something else to it I don't have that for you boy Steve. He gotcha on that the it might even be incorrect. Is the funny thing about Steve? Sophie C. No, that, that rings a bell to me. Yeah, I, I, that, I could, I'll, I'll confirm. Check that out. He's writing it down. Doug's taking a note. Doug's taking a note. Well, this is, that's competitiveness. He's like, I'm, there's a woman, there's a woman at lunch that I'm going to ask, she'll know right away. That's awesome. Okay. And then what year did the floating mail service begin? That's a tough one. I mean, where does Grisalfi come up with? Lake Winnipesaukee, you know, camp that comes with sports questions. I don't know if you can stop me on that, but the mail flag, I really have no idea. Right. 1920. 1892. Yeah, that's amazing. We had the CEO of USA Lacrosse on, Mark Riccio, and he's from central New York or maybe even north of that, like Finger Lake region. And Steve asked him, you know, what's your favorite, is it the Buffalo Chicken Wings or Chicken Rigatoni? And he told him, chicken rig isn't a thing. And Steve starts arguing with him. I'm like, Steve, he lived there! I mean I've never heard of Chicken Rigatoni. And Steve called it Chicken Riggy. He's like trying to convince the guy from the region that, no, you're wrong. It is a thing. I love it. Hilarious. All right. A few more. On which side, oh yeah. Chief Tecumseh fought in the war of 1812, on which side did he fight, the American or the British? British. Yeah. He, he's an amazing person that tried to unify the tribes Indian tribes against the white man. Yeah. Fascinating. I remember that. Chief Tecumseh was the man. And if he had done it, I feel like there's no way you could have won because there was so many, I guess. Right. Right. Something like that. No doubt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For selfie. And then Camp Tecumseh was founded by three Olympic athletes, as you just mentioned. And in which Olympic Games did they compete? 1900, I believe. Mr. Grant, I think, won a gold medal. No, Mr. Orton won a gold medal. And the, the big issue was though, that they didn't compete in their most, their, I can't remember exactly what the event was, maybe the steeplechase but it was scheduled for a Sunday and they were very Religious and faithful and did not compete in the event on a Sunday. I gotcha. He does have down here the track and George Orton won gold in the 2500m steeplechase. Yep, there you go. But I think, I think maybe it was Grant didn't, Orton did compete but Grant did not and he might have been the favorite actually. I gotcha. But also, so they were Canadian. It's actually the first gold medal is in Canada history is George Orton, but they were competing under the University of Pennsylvania. So it's considered a U. S. medal, I guess. Right. There you go. That's another little fun fact Steve has here to wrap it all up. Athletes countries of birth were not recognized until 1908. Of course, you didn't even put the year down that they won the gold. I'm pretty sure it was 1900 or 1896 or 1900. Maybe. Yeah. One of those two. I gotcha. Basically, Except for the Sophie C, the Sophie C mail boat and what year it started, that's, that's too much. Yeah. Steve. Doug's like, enough of your mail boat questions. These I have. I know the history of my camp. Right. So go home with your little childish questions. And the history of Chief Tecumseh. Pretty cool. Absolutely. Well, Doug, this has been awesome. Thanks so much for joining us here. Really, really appreciate it. Yeah, that was great guys. Can't, can't thank you enough. That was amazing. Always nice to talk to people about the sport of lacrosse and you know, you have to come say how meaningful sports have been in the course of my life. Right. Yeah. Doug and I, another thing I would just say on, on father's day, that's been so much fun for us, you know, we're, we're even a little older than you, but you know, at this stage in life, also just seeing what people you remember out on the field, what's. What, what have they done with their lives? You know, and it's really cool to hear how your life has evolved and the meaningful work you're doing for kids there. And and while I can say that we were all lucky to have Dom as that father figure, something tells me that you're providing that for a whole new generation of young people up there. So, so thanks for coming, being with us and thanks for what you do. Yeah, thanks guys. I hope I am and happy father's day to you guys too. All right. Take care.

Ron: 40:45

until we meet again, here to, hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the Get the LAX coop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.