S2. E20. Can’t Keep Him Down: The High Flying Doug Knight, USA Lax HOFer

In this episode of Get the LAX Scoop, hosts Jay McMahon and Ron Dalgliesh interview Doug Knight, a legendary collegiate lacrosse player who played for UVA and is a member of the National Lacrosse Hall of Fame. The discussion covers Doug's early influences in lacrosse, his multi-sport background, his career milestones at the University of Virginia, and insights into the mindset and experiences that shaped his success.

 Introduction to Get the LAX Scoop

 Guest Introduction: Doug Knight

 Early Influences and Background

 High School and Recruitment Journey

 Competing and Developing in College

 96 Season and Achievements

 Upcoming Highlights - Tune in Next Week

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Transcript

Jay: 0:00

It's time for get the La Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know. In the game of lacrosse, we take LAX seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join hosts, big Dog and Jaybird, and the biggest names in the game. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Ron Doish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the sports found. and Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All-American Midfielder Brown. He was a captain of the US Junior National team and is the founder of J M L. And joining us in the studio, Steve gfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Helping the next generation cross players. Get to the next level.

0:59

Friends, welcome to another episode of Get the Lack Scoop. It's an exciting episode. We got one of the all time greats with us today. Jay is going to do the intro. Jay, nice to be doing this on Father's Day. What could be better than just sitting around talking a little old school lacrosse with one of the great players? And I know it's going to be fun, Jay. You want to get us started? Let's do it. Nothing I'd rather do. Let's get it going. Our next guest was one of the all time great collegiate lacrosse players, a national Lacrosse Hall of Fame inductee in 2017. He played at the University of Virginia from 1994 to 1997, and among many records that he set. He graduated as the program's career scoring leader with 165 goals and 84 assists for 249 points across 60 games. That mark stood for 15 years. He led the nation in goals and points as a junior in 1996. and was named the Lieutenant Raymond Enners Award recipient as the U. S. ILA's Most Outstanding Player in Men's Division I Lacrosse. He earned All American honors three times at UVA, gaining first team recognition his junior and senior years, and second team recognition as a sophomore. Twice he helped Virginia advance to the NCAA Championship Final, coming up just one goal shy in overtime in both contests. After he and his linemate, fellow U. S. Lacrosse Hall of Famer, Michael Watson, terrorized the lacrosse nation with their high flying aerial assault, the creased dive was outlawed throughout the land, almost immediately following their graduation. No joke, that really happened. He is a member of the University of Virginia Athletics Hall of Fame. Following his graduation from UVA, he stayed on at Virginia as a volunteer assistant for two years, helping the Wahoos win the national title in 1999, the school's first in 27 years. He played professionally for the Boston Cannons and Philadelphia Barrage in the Major Lacrosse League. as well as indoors with Rochester and Baltimore in the National Lacrosse League. After his time at UVA, he became a mathematics teacher at Perennial Powerhouse St. Paul School in Baltimore and coached the boys lacrosse team. He did the same for the equally potent Haverford School outside of Philadelphia. He was also the University of Pennsylvania men's lacrosse team volunteer assistant and currently serves as camp director of Camp Tecumseh in Montomboro, New Hampshire, one of the highest rated camps in the country. He's originally from Connecticut and was a three sport athlete at Westminster School. He and his wife, Jill, are the proud parents of three sons. Please welcome the one, the only, Doug Knight. Yeah, Doug. Welcome. Wow, that was amazing. I might need the transcript of that. Just so I can tell people that all actually happened. I didn't get into all the ACC honors. Could have gone on and on. That's great stuff. Hey, Ron, you want to hit us with that first question? Absolutely. Jay first Doug, happy father's day. Thanks for taking time. With us today. And Doug, you know, we, well, Jay reads all those accolades of what became of your career. We like to, to go backwards and say, how did it all start? You know, and I know you were actually a big hockey player growing up in new England and going to Westminster and you played soccer as well. So. So tell us where did the cross fit in? Like, do you remember the earliest days of kind of who introduced you to the game when you first picked up a stick and maybe some people that were, were really influential in those early days of your lacrosse career? Yeah, absolutely. Thanks guys for having me. This is, this is awesome. Really excited to be with you guys. I started playing soccer and hockey from the age of three. Three. And you know, obviously loved sports all growing up. And lacrosse didn't come in until like 12, 13 years old, middle school. And I was at Hackley school with Conroe O'Rourke and Spencer Pelman. And, and they, those guys turned me on to the sport of lacrosse and then played there through 10th grade. Got a name for you guys. Senior year captain or sorry, he was a senior. I was, I was a sophomore. And he drove me to school. Most of that year as well was Rob Gutile. Oh, goody. Oh, man. Oh, man. Huge influence on my early years in soccer especially and then lacrosse too as I got into lacrosse. Wow. So I've had some, some great years with, with Rob, which is amazing and sort of lost touch with him so maybe I can get his contact info for you guys if you have it. Oh, yeah. He's a great guy. But no doubt. I mean absolutely just loved it from, from day one. And I think it sort of combined all the different sports I was playing ice hockey, specifically. I used to literally scoop ground balls and the ball and the stick never quite made it up to my ear where it should be, and I tell people to put it these days but it was like, I was kind of playing hockey down there and throwing passes off my hip and things like that, but just sort of really enjoyed it right from the beginning, right? That's great. Awesome. I love the, I love the good tall reference. He was kind of a, an interesting. Guy in our careers and for Brown lacrosse, because he was a freshman when we were seniors and had that undefeated season and lost to Maryland in the quarters. And then, and then his, when he's a senior, he goes on to play in the final four Brown's first final four. So Gute was a, is a hell of a guy and I had a hell of a player. He was, and you know, Pete Lasagna, I think he might have been the first coach that started inverting middies. He would invert middies that whole season. Kutal had like 49 assists or some ridiculous number of assists for a season. Yeah, I watched a bunch of those your, his freshman year games, that, that amazing season you guys have when you lost to Maryland, watched a bunch of that. And then 94 when they made it to the final four was my freshman year. And I remember literally like they were coming off the field and I was going on and I saw him. It might be the last time I've seen him. Just had a quick embrace and obviously he was pretty bummed out, but yeah, what a, what a great career and a great dude. Right. That's amazing. There you guys cross and pass right there at championship weekend. That's pretty cool. So I had spoken to Dom recently and he was telling me that he was at your high school at Westminster and he was there He's still at Brown, of course. This is like the end of the high school, you know, season of 1992. And so it's like early summer, late spring, and he's there to see one of the players that's going to be coming to Brown. And he hadn't even interviewed for the Virginia job yet. But he sees you play at TAC and is like, holy cow, this guy is like really good. And then DeLama, of course, is like, you know, I think he was my first recruit at Virginia. So take a little credit for Doug Knight. But he says he saw you play and he said you were sort of like shocked at like lacrosse. I'm going to play, you know, hockey at Williams or something like that. So tell me about that interaction. Like, what was that like? Yeah, that's I mean, very fortunate that he was recruiting Dennis Fitzgibbons, who was doing a PG year. Yep, exactly. And did actually didn't hear from Dom. I don't think. Till late in the summer but had done a camp or two that summer also, and was kind of like, all right, maybe like, you know, try to play lacrosse also. And was really looking at Middlebury Williams Amherst a little bit, mostly Middlebury and Williams to try and maybe play soccer, hockey and lacrosse. John Atherton comes to mind at a Middlebury three sport athlete who was a stud up there. And Aaron Quinn was trying to get me to be, to be the next him. But I, I also ran across paths with Coach Van Arsdale at the Hobart camp that summer. And the, the story from Dom and Coach Van both is that they both, they both sort of said to each other the first day in the office, I got a guy for you that nobody knows about. And they pretty much said my name at the same time. And yeah, I really was sort of had no understanding of division one college lacrosse. And I really think for me, it came down to, you know, soccer, hockey were my, my first love was really, I was, I consider myself a hockey guy. But lacrosse was going to provide the opportunity to play and compete at the highest level possible. And that's just what I wanted. I mean, it, it probably could have been. Spike ball, you know, if there was division one spike ball, if that was what I was into and going to get to the highest part of that's what I would have done. But yeah, just love Dom right away. They say not to make your decision based on the coach because you don't know if that coach is going to be there you know, for your whole time, but considering what he had gone through with his family and the huge amazing connection he had to Brown and to leave that for this new journey at University of Virginia, I was pretty confident he wasn't going anywhere and was going to build something special. Hmm. So, so Jay, what I took out of that is Dom's trying to weave some story where he's the magician that makes it all happen. Exactly. And really it's Smart Van, you know, it's Smart Van that got it done. I mean, that's at least what I'm gonna take out of this for Dom. You know, coach Lasagna. Actually this pretty much, this is pretty much my role with Dom. I try to keep Dom, you know, keep real cars too. Keep real. I try to bring them back to Earth, Doug. That's my job. Yeah, Coach Lasagna has a pretty interesting take on this story as well, because he claims that interestingly enough the Doug Knight file was not in the brown lacrosse clipboard. It did somehow mysteriously vanish when Dom left. That's great. So, Doug, you know Well, I will say, Dom is the one who introduced me to Doug, so he definitely got Doug here. So we'll give him credit for that. We'll definitely give him credit for that.

Jay: 10:18

How about if we transition to. J m l and let's do that. We'll get into a little bit of the mindset. We'll do a mindset minute here

10:27

Credit to Dom storages. What are Dom's best mindset moments. He'd often talk at length about the power of decisions and how they form your habits and your destiny. He'd say don't take the first shot that shows. Take the first really good shot that shows even when it was 33 degrees out in gloomy, he proclaimed with a smile. It's a great day in America, baby. Or his classic put your back into it. Or touch the plastic. Consistency is the most powerful form of mental toughness. Throw a pass that catches itself. Play fast, play smart, play together. The only thing we deserve is what we earn. Bring it in boys on me. Take care of yourselves, take care of each other. And he was saying that well before it became a catch phrase on the nightly news. Now, back to our interview. Doug, I want to ask you a two parter here, and Jay loves when I ad lib. Of course. He enjoys when I go off script. So I'm going to do it early today. Watch out, Doug. Starting early. No respect for your father's day. I'm I'm listening to The story of the kind of places you're thinking about going to school and you know, you know, I'm a hockey guy and you know, thinking about playing three sports in the NESCAC and then you become one of the, you know, you become a national player of the year D 1. I'll just become the national hall of famer and in my third sport, but I'm wondering if you could reflect on. What sounds like you just love to compete, you know, and you went season to season like many of us back in the day. I'll put Jay and I, you know, I'll try to pretend like Jay and I are in your league. You know, you just go from sport to sport and reflect on that and what kids experienced today. Could, could Doug Knight have been, could Doug Knight be Doug Knight today, you know, to keep playing three sports, keep competing. What's your reflection on the then now of what it is to be, you know, a top flight college recruit. Yeah it's interesting. I mean, I could probably talk for an hour about this specific topic. And you know, I the compete thing is really important to me. I'm 50 years old at this point, and I paddle tennis is my sport now, and I still love to compete in that and play at a pretty high level there against some, you know, young former tennis players. But if you want to grind, there's a, there's a sport for you to play and you can be good at it. But overall, I think with all sports, there's a certain baseline of ability that you need to have. And most of the guys that are playing division one lacrosse have that. But the kid who's six feet tall at 14 years old is going to look really, really good out there. If he's got that certain baseline of skills but that kid might be 6'1 or 6'2 at 18 or 19 years old when he's going off to college. Whereas the kid that was 5'2 at 14 years old is now like maybe 5'10 or so. And he's been pissed off for the last four years because no one pays any attention to him. And he's got a competitive fire to him and intensity and desire to succeed that that kid is six feet tall and never quite really had to develop. So I mean, you see all the parody and specifically college lacrosse nowadays. And they're going to not, they're going to not miss on the top five to 10 kids. They're probably going to be 90 percent there. Kids, 11 through 50, man, those top schools are not getting it right more often than they are. And that's why there's such parody out there. And you know, you watch Towson play against Syracuse that first half of the quarterfinals. There's a couple guys out there that were 5'7 and they were absolute studs. Oh my god, and their motors, like, it was amazing to watch. So yeah, I think if you, if you have the competitive fire and that sort of Baseline of skills. Then you can succeed at any level. I think. Doug, I think you're right about that. And we know so many of our listeners out there are in the hunt for getting to the college game. But you've told us that it's confusing, frustrating. And if you're wasting your time, because you don't know what to do and when to do it, It can be extra costly. So we've responded by putting excerpts of our 10 best interviews with legendary coaches, such as bill Tierney, Lars, Tiffany and Andy towers. Into a book that you can access for free on our JML app. Simply download the J McMahon lacrosse app at the apple app store or at Google play for Android and check it out. And for those. Who would like a book in their hands? Or on their Kindle, it is available on Amazon, under the title inside the recruiting game insights from college lacrosse coaches. So with that, you will see the description of these items also in the show notes. And due to popular demand, we have put together a Patrion page for the show. This will allow those interested in supporting our efforts to do just that and to get exclusive access to unedited interviews. Big discounts on the JML online courses and merchandise from our new online store. Big additions to the JML course catalog. Now we have a defenseman's course taught by none other than UVA head coach, Lars, Tiffany, and a goalie course taught by former two-time All-American and UVA assistant coach kept Turner. And as the summer is just starting. We are offering for a limited time only. 70% off. That's right. 70% off of our four week online courses that help young players take their skills, mindset, and max IQ from good to great. That means you can get access to these highly rated trainings for only$90. That's right. For$90 offensive players defensemen and goalies can take their game to the next level. The summer is the best time of year to improve your game. And that's why we are making this special offer. So jump on it now because it won't last for long. Simply download the free version of the Jane McMahon lacrosse app. Or just follow the link that's listed in the show notes. And you will see the coupon code noted for each different course. We're excited to get back to our interview and you will find that interview in progress.,Yeah. And Doug, you alluded to this a little while ago. We know Dom is a guy who loved multi sport athletes. You know, that was part of almost what he looked for in recruiting. I think Lars, to the extent he can these days has carried that forward. And you alluded to this in hockey, the, the the similarities of mindset and approach, but you can, can you speak a little more to that about how soccer and hockey helped you be a better lacrosse player and vice versa? Yeah, I think just understanding the movements on the ice or the soccer field, basketball is a huge one. I mean, if you can, if you play basketball you could probably be a D middie, you know, on some team somewhere, even if you can't even catch and throw, because your feet move really, really well. You understand, man down defense. I mean, that's exactly what it is playing, playing zone defense and basketball is man down defense in lacrosse. And, And yeah, understanding the fluidity of movements and how to get yourself open. And also just not playing the same sport year round and, and getting you know, sport specific injuries or just completely burnt out on that one sport. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. And then push it forward a little bit. So there you are at UVA as a freshman back in the fall of 1993. And then that 94 season, you become part of a team that makes that national title run. And you know, you're there with really seasoned players, guys who have been playing lacrosse as their main sport. for many years. You know, from Garden City, James I goalie Michael Watson's i baltimore, I believe tim and you've got on the def ronald mac christ, some o teammates or classmates r tommy smith, just all, al probably their whole live And and, you know, as you said, lacrosse may not even have been your main sport, but, you know, our audience is made up of a lot of young aspiring players and their parents. And we often talk about mindset and developing confidence. And how did you make a place for yourself among all these? Seasoned lacrosse players that first year. Particularly you're coming in there in the fall and then getting involved in that, that very talented team in 94. Tell us, tell us about that. What was your mindset back then? Yeah, no doubt. That was an amazing group to come into and really sort of settle into a team. And this was going to be my crew, you know, fall, winter, spring for the next four years. And that that's sort of a different than going season to season to season. I love the Gretzky quote from a long time ago, saying the best part about spring is you get to put your hockey stuff away and pick up your lacrosse gear. Yeah, I've ever heard that. That's cool. But eventually, I mean, even though I played, you know, three sports all through high school, But nowadays, hopefully kids are able to play two through high school, but really, you know, 14, 15, whenever you hit puberty, it could be 12 through 15 or 16. And you want to be good at something, you're gonna work at it and make yourself good. It really doesn't matter before that point. You can play as much as you want, and you're either not gonna be good enough, you're gonna get hurt. Or you're going to get burnt out, but when you hit puberty, that's the time I say when kids can. Yeah, you can start focusing on one, maybe two sports and make yourself good at it. So to have that opportunity at 18 for me or 19 you know, it took a little longer for me to focus in on one, but my ceiling was really, really high because I hadn't played a ton of lacrosse. So I had that baseline of skills and then I got there and just focusing on lacrosse really, really helped me, I think, to, to improve much more than, you know, the guys from Baltimore or Long Island who had been playing maybe just lacrosse a lot more than I had and they sort of hit their ceiling a little bit. Obviously they're going to get a little bit stronger, you know, their shot might get a little more accurate, but for the most part creativity wise and skills wise, they weren't getting. Any better at that point. So that, that allowed me to go from, you know, a left handed attackman that could barely catch and throw right handed to a left hand attackman that was okay at catching and throwing right handed. But, but definitely I, I had a lot of room for improvement when I arrived and started to focus on one sport. Right. I gotcha. Now had the creased dive become part of your game already at that point? little bit. Mr Todd Eckerson who was a man has a guy actually old school man has a guy probably around Dom's age, maybe a little younger than Dom. He was a teacher and coach at Westminster School. And brought me out there. I can remember actually with Fitzy and just kind of understanding that this was going to work for me, knowing my hockey game and how I would love to be around the crease of ice hockey and often times end up scoring a goal in hockey and getting checked into the crease or, you know, landing on top of the goalie and literally just sort of suggested it to me. And it just worked. And a great suggestion is if you don't want to go to your right hand, you know, you're left handed, you don't go topside your left to get underneath. You can dive keep the stick in your left hand, right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, so it it's sort of Been in there a little bit already and I was I remember being when I got to virginia was Sick for most of my freshman fall and was just you know Unable to play and I was kind of losing my mind a little bit. But yeah, when I finally was able to get out there and compete it just kinda, it kinda worked and you know, the dive was, was sort of took off from there. Mm hmm. Now, Dom had mentioned that fall that you had some type of an illness and couldn't play much and said he was like, and he's like, is it the illness or is this guy? I don't think he, his right hand is functional. You don't have to take him to the doctor. Like it's, is that a full range of motion? Like, I mean, I tell coach Murph to this day at Penn, I'm like, I'm not sure I would have made this team. You know, I just, the amount of time and energy they put into it and the skill level they have is sort of incredible. But yeah, you know, are you figuring it out or are you figuring it out? Yeah. I mean, that's a nice transition Jay to, okay, I don't have much of a right hand and then. Oh, then in 90, 1996, I have one of the great seasons ever in the game of, of lacrosse. And so I guess Doug, we want to explore that, that 96 season a little bit, which I'm, I'm sure you're, it's okay to go back there. That's not a bad, bad place from that freshman fall to reflecting a little on that 96 season, you know, where you lead the nation in goals and points, you set new, new UVA records, your national player of the year. I mean, you got sidekicks of Watson at Whiteley, what, what a fricking attack, you know, that was yeah. And then those, those slackers, Curry and Radabaugh you know, I mean, man alive, that's some that's some offensive talent. And you know, really not a lot of players have could say they, they had a year like that. And Doug, I'm already getting a sense that you were a guy That had a little bit of a chip on his shoulder, but I, and that, that competitive, this maybe fueled you. And that fact that maybe Don was talking about your right hand like that. All right, I'll show you, but, but can we get into your mindset a little bit more? And as you look back now, like where there are things going into that year that you prepared differently or you had a different mindset that as you look back now, we're kind of keys to your success throughout that year. Okay. Yeah, and I'll even take it back a little further to freshman year fall and kind of let it evolve through 95 and 96. There was a lot of failure to be honest. I mean, so, so my freshman year also a reserve, a reserve defenseman that ended up transferring to Johns Hopkins and having a pretty good lacrosse career and beyond John Gagliardi literally covered me pretty much every day. In practice. And I really don't, I don't think I'm lying when I say he probably knocked the stick out of my hand at least once a day. And I just, you know, like I didn't really think much of it. Cause I just love to play. I love to be part of the team. I said, all right, like you're going to have to do it again. Cause I'm coming back at you. So, you know, a lot, a lot of failure coach Van Arsdale on the offensive end literally took me out there with a bucket of balls and Grow them from X to me on the wing and have me shoot a little 12 yarder duck underneath and, and, and shoot a little, you know, seven yarder on the run. Coach Murphy had me out there doing riding drills, agilities. And, and, you know, Dom literally worked with me. I remember on an ERG a rowing machine and just getting me in shape. So those guys were a huge, huge part of building me. And that was over the course of, you know, That was really freshman fall through junior and senior year was those guys helped me tremendously. And you mentioned, I mean, so my freshman and sophomore year. It was a freshman year was Watson and Whiteley were starters. And so was Sean Miller. And Sean got hurt towards the end of the year, tore his ACL, you know, had the brace, tried to play, tried to play. But eventually, literally, I think it was the national championship game when he was just done for good. What, what a bummer, man. But he came back his senior year, then my sophomore year and basically just played man up. And sorry, I'm getting sidetracked here, but an amazing Sean Miller story, who's one of my best friends to this day literally we, we hit it off really, really well my freshman year. And I so much so that I started to think this guy just didn't want me to take his position. And when I was having fun and when, you know, his team was playing well, we went out a lot but eventually, you know, fast forward to sophomore year. I did take his position. It was, you know, we were, we're just as close and he's just an amazing person and I always say, I'm not sure that I would have been as incredible about it as he was had the roles been reversed pretty cool. Yeah. So Doug, how about getting back to. You know, the process, I think you were talking, Hey, it's not just about what I did before that season. It, this was a three year process of getting to 96. Are there other things that, that you felt sort of got you to that place? I'm getting a sense from you also, which is so important for young players, just that, Hey, great. Knock the stick out of my hand. I'm coming back at you like that resilience and compete and not getting negative. Thoughts into your head. So you talk a little bit more about again, that freshmen to national player of the year sequence. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think I mean, I think You mean? You think, what is it that you mean? What is it that you think. Out with it. To hear how the great Doug night went from a sniffling. He did have a bad call for almost two months in the fall of his freshman year, stumbling, bumbling, fumbling, his stick kind of guy to the national player of the year. In this short span of time between his freshmen to his junior seasons tune in next week, to hear the stunning conclusion.

Ron: 27:37

until we meet again, here to, hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the Get the LAX coop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.