S2 E19. Beyond NIL: The $2.8 Billion House v. NCAA & Universities Settlement Opens the Flood Gates of Pay to Play, Part III.

In this episode of 'Get the Lax Scoop,' hosts Big Dawg (Ron Dalgliesh) and Jaybird (Jay McMahon) are joined by Drew Fox, a University of Virginia alumnus and founder of the Virginia Lacrosse Alumni Association. They discuss the implications of the recent House vs. NCAA case, which resulted in a $2.8 billion settlement to college athletes and the removal of scholarship limits. The hosts delve into the complexities of NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) deals and their impact on college athletics, including extensive commentary on the evolving landscape of sports and the role of coaches. 

Our roving reporter, the insightful yet hilarious Steve Gresalfi, inquires about what his NIL opportunities may have been given his impressive stat line and reveals some unexpected answers from our guest. 

Additionally, the episode highlights the various resources available through JML Lacrosse, such as online courses and a new book featuring insights from legendary coaches. The discussion tackles the future realignment of college conferences and the enduring but changing role of lacrosse at the collegiate level.

00:00 Introduction to Get The Lax Scoop Podcast

00:28 Hosts and Special Guests

01:12 Landmark Case: House vs NCAA

02:28 NIL and College Lacrosse Recruiting

03:01 JML App and Resources

03:50 Exclusive Offers and Courses

04:54 Interview with Drew Fox: NIL and College Athletics

16:45 Future of College Lacrosse and Professional Sports

20:40 Hypothetical NIL Deals and Fun Questions

24:11 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

NEW BOOK!
Inside the Recruiting Game: Insights From College Lacrosse Coaches
-available for FREE on the JML Training App at:
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-And available on Amazon.com as an Ebook and paperback

Link to the FREE JML Mini Course-now with a FREE defense course taught by Lars Tiffany and a FREE Mini goalie course taught by Kip Turner- on our own App: https://jay-mcmahon-lacrosse.passion.io/checkout/79608

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patreon.com/GetTheLaxScoop
And take a look at our new virtual storefront here: jml-online-store.company.site

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Transcript

Jay: 0:05

It's time for get the La Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know. In the game of lacrosse, we take LAX seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join hosts, big Dog and Jaybird, and the biggest names in the game. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Ron Doish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the sports found. and Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All-American Midfielder Brown. He was a captain of the US Junior National team and is the founder of J M L. And joining us in the studio, Steve gfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Helping the next generation cross players. Get to the next level.

1:09

Hello everyone. And welcome back to the show. This is the second installment of our two part interview series discussing the landmark case house versus NCAA, which settled just a few weeks ago on May 23rd. In this case, the NCAA and members of the power, five conferences. Agreed to pay out$2.8 billion to approximately 15,000 college athletes. Dating back to 2016, these athletes were involved in revenue, generating sports and going forward. Each school will pay college athletes 20 to$22 million each and every season at each school's discretion. Part of his agreement is that the number of scholarships a school is allowed to give out is no longer limited opening the door for far more opportunities for college lacrosse players. Our guest who is helping us hash out. This complex situation is drew Fox. University of Virginia alumnus with a successful career in the world of finance. He is a founder of the Virginia lacrosse alumni association and is actively involved with Kat futures, the collective that funds Virginia's and I L initiative. If you've not heard the first part of his interview. We highly recommend you go back and do so as it is a fascinating conversation. You will find this interview in progress.

Speaker 2: 2:28

You know, I think, I think where it is, is just the, the modern landscape is just so different. And to me, the thing about the modern landscape is not just how different it is. But how rapidly every day, every week, it's still evolving. So where we are today is very likely not where we're going to be when house starts paying out in 2025.

Speaker: 2:54

Crazy.

Speaker 3: 2:54

So, so true. What keeps you, you know, I, I, we were all down at the final four and it was a disappointing result for Virginia, but you know, I could see how passionate, I can see how passionate you still are, you know, about college athletics. And UVA lacrosse and, and as this world keeps evolving and, you know, there is this sense of pay to play. How do you remain sort of energized about it? There's a, there's a cynicism about it that, that I don't know, I haven't come to the terms with yet, you know, and and again, maybe I'm just becoming a cranky old bastard, but, but I don't want a kid to go hungry. I don't want a kid to not have books. I don't want a kid to not have their computer. And by the way, they sh. They own their own name, image, and likeness, but it seems like the world's just gone upside down on this stuff. So how do you remain? I can see you're still in it, right? You still love it. You still want to support your program. What's the why for you?

Speaker 2: 3:55

Yeah. The why for me is still about when you just put on, put on the shirt and go between the lines that has not changed one bit. So if you take everything else away and say, when you step on that field with that shirt on, is it still like it used to be? It's completely like it used to be, and it's been enhanced because there's more eyeballs. There's more interest. There's more exposure through social media. Now there's a way you can actually earn income through the exposure. What isn't great is the ability, you know, seemingly now to have unlimited transfers during your collegiate career. What isn't of interest now is The economic you know, sort of prioritization of all this. We three, you know, used to put on that shirt and go for the love of competition and to, to go to, you know, to go to compete with our teammates and best friends. Now there's a little more of an economic incentive, even in the Olympic sports, forget the revenue sports, which are completely now economically driven. But for me, Olympic sports, it's still about competing. When you, when you cut it all down to competition day, the rest of the time, there's a lot more to look at than just the competition and training and preparation.

Speaker: 5:23

Yeah. Right. Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 5:28

Jay, I got a few more, but I, I, I mean, I don't want to, I want to be conscious of Drew's time and I want to be conscious, Jay, of always giving you equal time because, you know, that's the kind of co host I am, Jay.

Speaker: 5:38

That's amazing, Ron. I love the way you roll. Well, if you have, if Drew is up to answering and you do have a few more legitimate questions, fire away. Let's do it. If that's all right with Drew.

Speaker 3: 5:51

Yeah Drew, I'm wondering, you know, obviously we you know, we're all close to Lars and I think about the role of coaches today and, you know, You know, how do we keep great coaches in the game when there's so many different dimensions, you know, you mentioned the unlimited transfer rules. So right now, you know, you used to be thinking about developing a group of people over four years, you know, and now you're like, God, I'm not, I'm not making, am I thinking about my who, who am I playing in this game? Not best based on the matchup, but I don't want that kid to leave. I want them to, you know, I want them to stay here. Also, I'm screwed next year. It's just mind boggling. The kind of things that these coaches have to think about it. So I'm, I'm wondering what you think about from the coach perspective.

Speaker 2: 6:40

The coaches in this environment don't get paid enough. Plain and simple. People like our friend Lars Tiffany at UVA and other leading coaches around the country in all the different sports. They just simply don't get paid enough today because there is so much to navigate. So part of my interest in this whole thing is about getting more income to coaches, head coaches, And especially the assistants and the junior assistants, because without them, none of this happens. And if you've got leading coaches like Nick Saban saying, I'm hanging it up because

Speaker 5: 7:28

this

Speaker 2: 7:28

isn't what I signed up for. I signed up to shape men, build leaders. and create ball clubs that were enduring over a four or five year period. Now he's got a different ball club every year. Kids are transferring in and out. We saw what happened you know, Colorado where an entirely new roster arrived on a bus. Imagine being the coaches or players that were there when the bus arrived and then imagine what it's like year over year when you have that kind of turnover. Out of other programs to go there and out of there to go to other programs. So I think coaching is obviously much more complex today than it was back in our era. I think coaches today have to navigate not only their. Current roster needs and what's available to portal into their program, but also their current roster and what's potentially portaling out and finding the balance between. How many transfers to take is such a hard thing. You see some programs, some coaches in some sports taking lots every year. You see some taking none. You see some taking a few. It's, it's really, really challenging. The flexibility and fungibility of college athletic skill has never been like it is today. If you're good at your sport, you can literally go anywhere in the country each year. And that is just hard to coach.

Speaker 3: 9:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:08

So fast forward from late June 2021, there have been all types of behaviors around NIL because literally the road has no guardrails, has no guardrails,

Jay: 9:20

How about if we transition to. J m l and let's do that.

9:26

Speaking of no guardrails that so many of our listeners describe the college lacrosse recruiting trail. So we've responded by putting excerpts of our 10 best interviews with legendary coaches, such as bill Tierney, Lars, Tiffany and Andy towers. Into a book that you can access for free on our JML app. Simply download the J McMahon lacrosse app at the apple app store or at Google play for Android and check it out. And for those. Who would like a book in their hands? Or on their Kindle, it is available on Amazon, under the title inside the recruiting game insights from college lacrosse coaches. So with that, you will see the description of these items also in the show notes. And due to popular demand, we have put together a Patrion page for the show. This will allow those interested in supporting our efforts to do just that and to get exclusive access to unedited interviews. Big discounts on the JML online courses and merchandise from our new online store. Big additions to the JML course catalog. Now we have a defenseman's course taught by none other than UVA head coach, Lars, Tiffany, and a goalie course taught by former two-time All-American and UVA assistant coach kept Turner. And as the summer is just starting. We are offering for a limited time only. 70% off. That's right. 70% off of our four week online courses that help young players take their skills, mindset, and max IQ from good to great. That means you can get access to these highly rated trainings for only$90. That's right. For$90 offensive players defensemen and goalies can take their game to the next level. The summer is the best time of year to improve your game. And that's why we are making this special offer. So jump on it now because it won't last for long. Simply download the free version of the Jane McMahon lacrosse app. Or just follow the link that's listed in the show notes. And you will see the coupon code noted for each different course. We're excited to get back to our interview and you will find that interview in progress.

Speaker: 11:40

So, Drew, you did mention that you thought, with all these shufflings of the conferences, that actually eventually, eventually, They'd only be like two conferences. So like, how, how would that scenario work out?

Speaker 2: 11:52

Yeah. So the two conferences, it's really two plus one. So it's, it's, it's big 10 and it's SEC Southeastern Conference plus the Ivy League. I think when they talk power five, IVs are not listed, but I think in the new world order, it's really big. Three conferences long term potentially, this is all forecasting my own opinion. And there's a lot of moving parts to this. So we've seen the degradation of other power 5 conferences who, by the way, are still listed as power 5 conferences pack 12 as an example. Where other conferences have grown rapidly and have taken all these different geographic you know, universities into their historically geographically centered conference.

Speaker 4: 12:40

Right?

Speaker 2: 12:41

And I think you're just gonna see the conferences realigned to where there is the largest. TV revenue dollars available, and that's currently Big Ten Southeastern Conference, and the others will either shrink or merge or shrink and merge, and a few will go away, and then of course the IVs will continue to be The IVs

Speaker: 13:12

interesting stuff. No doubt.

Speaker 3: 13:14

Yeah, it seems like the ACC which it's not, you know, it's widely reported how Comparatively poor their TV deal is this puts them in an even more difficult situation, right? We're clumsy in

Speaker: 13:27

Florida state are trying to get out.

Speaker 3: 13:29

Yeah

Speaker 2: 13:30

Yeah, there's a lot of forecasting around the ACC, and certainly we've been a proud ACC member for a long, long time at the University of Virginia. It just remains to be seen whether Florida State, Clemson, and the others will stay. We hope they will. But it seems like the recent talk has been if, if one leaves, then several will leave. And so, sort of, if one leaves, If one goes, then seven could go. And if seven go, what are you left with? And again, it's that, it's that merge concept of where smaller conferences might merge with others or realign. It's just really hard to forecast.

Speaker: 14:13

Right. To keep an eye on it.

Speaker 3: 14:16

What about the sport of college lacrosse in all this, Drew? You know, cause we're, it seems like while lacrosse has been coming. You know, we're not football and basketball, and yet, you know, we're ahead of the curve of some other Olympic sports or other sports that maybe have a lower profile, lower ability to generate revenue. So you know, if you keep putting on your, your crystal ball, what's your feeling about how this impacts the game of college lacrosse?

Speaker 2: 14:49

Look, I think we just had the opening PLL weekend for the 2024 season in Albany this past weekend. I think there's a record interest in professional lacrosse, which is new. There's Athletes Unlimited on the women's side, professional lacrosse. You've got lacrosse coming to the 2028 Olympics in Los Angeles. So I think in place today. Absent all the N. C. A. A. And recent settlements and litigation and N. I. L. And all the is a is a record sort of high watermark of interest in lacrosse across both men's and women's sides. Certainly the revenue sports continue to be the revenue sports, and that isn't changing. Fast forward 5 or 10 years. I think it's fair to ask a question, and this is a, this is an unknowable answer for this question. Will professional football continue to be professional football as we see it today, given the rate of injury and specifically the head injury piece of professional football? It's not solvable. There is no equipment that can protect it. your brain from hitting the side of your skull with force when concussions occur. And because concussions are so serious a problem, and because repeated concussions cause so much more than just concussions long term you have to wonder, will professional NFL become a league where basically competitors sign their life away? It becomes a gladiator sport. And if it does, then does that somehow limit the amount of entrance into the NFL? And if that occurs, then that decreases the funnel of player players you know, skill and numbers going into that funnel. You start to get to a world where potentially there are different You know, sports of interest that aren't just football. It's an idea. Our sport has been around for 1100 years, so it's done a really good job maintaining itself through all economic cycles through ups and downs, recessions, bull markets, you know, famines, wars, all the rest. I bet on lacrosse long term. I just would love to personally see lacrosse at the youth level be less of a revenue sport. I've got a, I've got a rising 12th grader. Gosh, darn, if youth lacrosse isn't a revenue sport, I don't know what is

Speaker 3: 17:42

right. No question, Drew. No question. That's a whole other episode, Drew. Yes,

Speaker 2: 17:48

it is.

Speaker 3: 17:49

Yeah. Yeah. Are

Speaker: 17:51

we ready to bring in our roving reporter for a few follow up?

Speaker 3: 17:55

I think so. Now, Drew, this is where the episode takes an interesting twist. So, we just want you to be prepared. Alright, well, I'm interested, Jay and I are always interested to see what Steve's going to bring to the table, Drew. So, you

Speaker 4: 18:09

know. That was an amazing conversation, but I have to admit it was pretty esoteric. So, my questions, Drew, are more geared towards the guys who couldn't really pay attention in class.

Speaker 2: 18:17

Yeah,

Speaker 4: 18:17

so I just want to get down to the brass tacks and and these questions are all hypothetical So just give us your best guess with your experience with the collective.

Speaker: 18:26

Definitely no right answer.

Speaker 4: 18:28

Yeah, we're just looking for ballpark and you know, we're just spitballing here But in today's money what kind of nil deal or house decision deal would a herschel walker garner?

Speaker 2: 18:42

Oh, that's a great. That's a great one.

Speaker: 18:45

Getting 50, 000, you know, Herschel, he's got to be getting a little more than that.

Speaker 2: 18:49

Yeah, I would think I would think knowing sort of different top college basketball and football players. We're talking, you know, because remember, you can get house and you can still get on NIL. We're talking upwards of, of, you know, I mean, Alabama starting quarterback was getting 10. We're talking 10, 10 or more today. Herschel.

Speaker: 19:18

Wow. All right. Alabama quarterback was getting 10 million. That's insane.

Speaker 4: 19:23

All right. So on the other end of the spectrum, how about a hypothetical backbench Ivy league D MIDI with one career goal to his credit, say maybe against Dartmouth?

Speaker: 19:34

The goal

Speaker 2: 19:35

is scored against Dartmouth?

Speaker: 19:36

Yeah. It's a personal interest question, I think, for Steve. This

Speaker 4: 19:39

is a complete hypothetical.

Speaker 2: 19:42

Do some charitable work, get, get a foundation payment of 5, 000 for the year and great job on that goal.

Speaker 4: 19:50

Wow. 5, 000. That's not bad. What if we marketed this guy as tied for first place in career shooting and face off percentage? Because, Ron, I was one for one shooting and two for two on face off career numbers. Steve, all you needed

Speaker 3: 20:05

was more opportunities. This, this was, this was Dom's fault. You just needed more opportunities, Steve. Yeah. I mean,

Speaker 4: 20:15

that's the side of Peyton Cormier and Peter LaSalle with those numbers. I mean, we're going to be selling some trucks.

Speaker 2: 20:20

Yeah. Dom, Dom would say, you know, bend your back and put your hand on the plastic. We can probably kick in another 150 for you.

Speaker 4: 20:29

Nice. Now, speaking of Dom. When he was at Brown, he used to talk in practice about how soft all the Virginia guys were. So, just curious, when he got to Charlottesville, did he talk about how soft all the Brown guys were?

Speaker 2: 20:41

So I'm very familiar about what Dom used to say when you guys were freezing your tails off up on that roof. Okay, I'm very familiar. Yeah, he always talked glowingly about the brown guys.

Speaker 3: 20:56

Did he really?

Speaker 2: 20:57

Yeah, glowingly. Yeah,

Speaker 3: 20:59

well, well, Drew, when he used to ask us as we're shoveling the roof, what do you think the Virginia guys are doing right now? I'd go, I don't know. They're probably playing lacrosse, Dom. I bet they're getting better at extra man right now. I'm not really sure how I'm improving.

Speaker 2: 21:17

We, we heard all about it. And I would say the, the universal, the, you know, the universe making it all right was when, you know, Jay was a senior, I was a freshman, we were all lined up, you know, ready to clash at Loyola, Curly Field, surprise five inch snowstorm the night before we roll in Brown rolls in. Coach Adams in his tie is sort of talking to Dom. We're in the locker room going, Coach, what are we doing? Dom's got the guys out on the field. We pull out in our bus, no game. So that was the universe kind of correcting while you guys were shoveling the roof and we were at a cocktail party with sundresses. It all snapped back.

Speaker 3: 22:04

Now, Drew, I think we just need some factual correction. It was about an inch that you Virginia guys got on that. We couldn't possibly play in an inch of snow. I mean, talk about perpetuating the stereotype, Drew. It must kill you. Drew, you seem like a tough guy. You're going to get on the bus while we're out on the field. I mean, oh my God, Drew. We

Speaker 2: 22:27

were sad. We that was a terrible day for that was a terrible event. We should have played. And I think it would have been a hell of a game. That

Speaker 3: 22:36

would have been, that would have been, two great teams. I

Speaker 4: 22:40

just want to follow up with just a question that just goes outside the box a little bit. Can boisterous fans be eligible for NIL money? Because Ron Dalglish actually made the Richmond newspaper with his famous yelling and heckling skills. Are there any opportunities there that we should be looking at?

Speaker 3: 22:57

You know, this is a great point true Games true. There's statistical evidence. Yeah Maybe I need a private equity investor steve

Speaker 2: 23:08

I think there's there's an opportunity there. You you know if you go We were up, we had, we had a great playoff game with Brown a couple years back up up on your, up on your field. That's where that article

Speaker: 23:21

came from. It was pre game they did that article. It was

Speaker 2: 23:23

incredible crowd noise. So I like it. NIL for crowd support.

Speaker 4: 23:29

Yeah.

Speaker: 23:32

Beautiful.

Speaker 4: 23:33

All right. Well, that's a wrap for my questions, Jay.

Speaker: 23:36

Awesome. Nice work. Thank you,

Speaker 4: 23:37

Drew. That was very informative.

Speaker: 23:38

It was great, Drew. Thanks a million. Really. Thank you. Really cool stuff.

Speaker 3: 23:42

Yeah, Drew, I learned a ton and really appreciate all that you shared with us. Tremendous expertise.

Speaker 2: 23:49

Yeah, you know, it's it's great to be with you guys. I think one of the really interesting things is If you take our color orange and our color blue and you put them together, literally on the on the color scale, the exact color that comes out is brown. Brown is that so somehow our programs are linked, right? Jay, you're from garden city. I played with Andy Krauss and Rob Falk and Greg leader and Jim Ireland. We're all linked together. I think lacrosse is going to be okay. I think our coaches and student athletes are going to be okay. But gosh, darn, this is a new world order. And so great for you guys to be sharing the topic and helping your listeners be more informed.

Speaker: 24:36

Right. Well, thanks so much for all the information. Great stuff.

Speaker 3: 24:40

Great. Thank you, Drew. Another great episode of Get the Lex, Scoop Friends, Jay. Always fun. I know you're annoyed with me tonight cause I really went off script. I got Jay's, Jay's like fumbling. Where are we right now, Steve? I'm a genius here. He had no idea where we were. Jay, it's an interview. You just roll with it, Jay. You just, you go where it takes you. Loosen me up here, Ron. But if it's not on the paper, he can't follow along. Good lord.

Ron: 25:06

until we meet again, here to, hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the Get the LAX coop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.