S2 E4. The Brothers Byrne; Harvard Head Coach Gerry Byrne & UVA HOFer Steve Byrne.

We’re so excited to release our interview with coaches and brothers, Gerry and Steve Byrne. The pair, along with their older brother and parents, grew up in Levittown, NY on Long Island with their older brother and parents in the nineteen seventies and early nineteen eighties. Steve, older than Gerry by five years, states in his understated, tongue in cheek manner, that he attended the local public high school, Levittown Division, so his parents could save up their money for their favorite son, Gerry. That way Gerry could attend perennial powerhouse Chaminade, the private Catholic school in Nassau county. 

Gerry disputes whether or not he was the favorite son but is quick to point out there was no disputing what a great talent his older brother Steve was as the top recruited high school defensemen on Long Island back in 1979. Steve became a 3X All American at Virginia and eventually was a starter on defense for Team USA helping them win gold in Toronto, Canada in 1986.

Gerry states he was quite exceptional himself, as he was the only player at Chaminade who tried out for the lacrosse team in a thick Irish sweater. Despite his bewildering choice of apparel, he did make the team and enjoyed a solid high school career. He went on to play,  also as a defensemen, at Umass Amherst where he was a 2X All New England selection and lead the Minutemen to the NCAA quarterfinals in 1986. 

Gerry Byrne, of course, would go on to a stellar coaching career as the defensive coordinator at Notre Dame until 2019. Since 2020 has been the head coach at Harvard. Harvard is currently 6-0 and ranked #12 in the nation, one of the highest rankings the program has ever achieved in the NCAA era. 

In this first episode, the brothers Byrne describe their upbringing and how lacrosse became a big part of both their lives growing up leading Steve to the University of Virginia and Gerry to the University of Massachusetts Amherst. Steve describes his days on grounds in Charlottesville in raucous fashion as he and a number of Long Island lacrosse players clash with the local inhabitants. This is an enlightening, fun, and dramatic interview you won’t want to miss! 

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Transcript

Jay: 0:00

It's time for get the La Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know. In the game of lacrosse, we take LAX seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join hosts, big Dog and Jaybird, and the biggest names in the game. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Ron Doish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the sports found. and Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All-American Midfielder Brown. He was a captain of the US Junior National team and is the founder of J M L. And joining us in the studio, Steve gfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Helping the next generation cross players. Get to the next level.

0:59

Friends, welcome to another episode of Get the Lax Scoop. We're excited. This is our brotherly love episode tonight. Two tremendous players, who hail from Long Island. So God bless JLB, you know, outing Two more people from Long Island. Good boy. Coaches, Ron. Let's go. Enough of you already. We're just gonna get started. Alright? I'm already I've already had enough. Ron, just start the intro. Our first guest, a native, A native of Levittown, New York. He was an all island Catholic league lacrosse player at Chaminade High. He went on to play, collegiately at UMass Amherst graduating in nineteen eighty six. You learn something new about someone every day, Jay. That That I did not know about this guest. Have to say a little shocked. But Had a degree in economics. No. No, Barry. The guy's, an intellect of the game. He He was a two year starter and an all New England defenseman. As a senior, he helped lead the minute to the nineteen eighty six NCAA quarterfinals. From Amherst, he went on to enjoy a successful post college playing career. He was four time all US club association team and was invited for the US national team trials three times. This guy was simply one of the best defenders in the country of his era. And in nineteen eighty nine, he began his first of two stints at Notre Dame, accepting an assistant coaching position where he remained until the end of the ninety one season. In nineteen ninety nine, he was inducted into the New England chapter of the US Lacrosse Hall of Fame And was named the two thousand one New Hampshire High School coach of the year while directing the Sahagin High School squad. He served as head coach at Saint Anselm's College in Manchester, New Hampshire from two thousand three to two thousand six. And while there, he guided the hawks to sixteen victories with the o five squad setting the program record for the lowest goals against and for ground balls in a season. In August two thousand six, he returned to South Bend to run the Irish defensive unit. He helped end Notre Dame to Fourteen NCAA tournament appearances, including thirteen straight, eleven conference titles, And an overall record of a hundred and seventy and seventy eight. That's six eighty five for us nonmath majors. Not bad. Not bad. Notre Dame, which earned one of eight national seeds in eleven of the last twelve years he was at Notre Dame, reached the core finals round or later on ten different occasions and twice earned a spot in the division one finals in two thousand ten and two thousand fourteen. Look. Under his watch, Notre Dame just firmly established itself as one of the top defensive teams in the country, And this guy earned a reputation as simply one of the top minds in the game, especially at the defensive end of the field. And the fighting Irish finished among the top five in the nation in scoring defense seven times in his thirteen seasons. But it's Seven times? That's amazing. Yes, Jay. I read that correctly. That was seven times in thirteen years top five in the country It is incredible. Against. Had the stingiest defensive group in two thousand Nine and two thousand twelve. And the two thousand twelve club boasted the best man down defense in division one. The guy can coach defense, period. Sure sounds like it. His work did not go unnoticed. He was named the two thousand eleven Collegiate Men's Lacrosse Coaches Association National Assistant Coach of the Year. Say that fast three times. His excellence on the sideline was also recognized as a key part of the coaching staff of the year award in the Great Western League twice in o seven and o nine and once in the Big East in two thousand twelve. He is now entering his fifth season as the Frisbie family head coach at Harvard University. During his time in Cambridge, he Quickly returned the Crimson lacrosse program, the national spotlight. While his first two seasons must have been a rough start your first two seasons as a head coach at Harvard, twenty and twenty one were essentially those seasons canceled in the Ivy League due to COVID nineteen pandemic. But in his first full season in twenty two, Harvard earned a spot in the NCAA tournament for the first time since two thousand fourteen. For the Crimson's eight wins that year were over ranked opponents, and Harvard was consistently in the national rankings getting as high as number ten in the country. The Crimson continued to demonstrate the ability to play with the best teams in the country in twenty twenty three, highlighted by a massive upset win over number four, Cornell Big Red, our guest coach of defensive unit that finished among the best in the nation, last year, the Crimson ride was third best in the country holding teams under eighty percent clearing success, And the defense finished forced in the net fourth in the nation with ten point five cause turnovers per game. The Harvard man down unit allowed this was crazy to me. Only nine goals the entire year, and finished as the best mad down unit in the league. It's amazing. So ladies and gentlemen, I'm pleased to welcome the head men's lacrosse coach for the Harvard Crimson, Jerry Barrett. Woo hoo. Very welcome. What a record, That intro is longer than Avatar. Yeah. We don't mess around. We'll mess around. I mean, we left out a lot of stuff. Touching our bases, Jerry. That's right. Alright. Our next guest Also grew up in Levittown, New York, located right in the middle of Nassau County, Ron, on Long Island. He picked up His first stick in January of his freshman year in high school and took off from there. He was an all county defenseman for the Levittown division Blue Dragons. He next attended the University of Virginia where he was a captain, a three time all American, an ACC MVP, A Smicer Cup and Heroes Award winner as the best defenseman in division one lacrosse. During his time at UVA, his teams went to one national championship and three final fours. After college, he continued to play at high level That seems like a pretty good career. Can we pause there, please? That was That's that's a hell of a college career right there. It This. Yeah. Incredible. Incredible. Yeah. Let's let's give a little credit for Christ's sake. Let's sink in. Can I continue, Ron? Please, Jeff. Please. Thank you. After college, he continued to play high level club lacrosse in a varieties of cities and states as he moved around the country working for General Electric. He was a member of the nineteen eighty six World champion US national lacrosse team winning gold in Toronto, Canada, and was an alternate on the nineteen ninety and nineteen ninety four national teams. He's been inducted into the Long Island Metro Lacrosse Hall of Fame as well as the Virginia Lacrosse Hall of Fame. In two thousand three, he was named to the fiftieth anniversary ACC lacrosse team. The game of lacrosse has taken him around the country as he's played and coached in over twenty states. Over the past fifteen years, he's been engaged with building the game in Cleveland, Ohio, where he lives with his wife and daughter. He's been a head coach for Gilmore Academy and Shaker Heights High Schools. Presently, he's an assistant coach at Shaker Heights coaching the defense. Please welcome one of the Wahoo's all time greats and man who will always remain coach Jerry Byrne's big brother. Again, please welcome coach Steve Byrne. Thank you. Very welcome. Steve. Here, guys. Thanks for joining us. Yeah. Really fun to have you guys with us. And you know, Jerry, you were asking earlier why we You know, how we got into this whole thing. And I think you guys really epitomize that, which is Jay and I have been friends for, you know, Thirty plus years, and we only know each other because of the game lacrosse. And, you know, over all the years, we just came to appreciate All the incredible relationships in the game, and it's fun. You're our first brother combination to be on, but clearly, you guys So you guys might have known each other without lacrosse, But most of us wouldn't, basically. So, Steve, we always like to start,, with how you develop your passion for the game. And so tell us when you first started playing the sport, and I understand there may be somebody that our listeners There's many recognize who first had a role in getting a stick in your hand. Yeah. No. For sure, I'm at lacrosse in our house Really wasn't a thing. It was football, basketball, baseball, and then any other makeup game that you could figure out, with your your buddies on the street. So I went to a Catholic high school one through eight, Saint Bernard's. And my gym teacher, my seventh and eighth grade years was Bill Tierney, who's also a Levittown guy. He's on the south side. We like to call it Levittown Slope, and we were in Levittown Heights In the heights. In the heights. Nice. Yeah. So yeah. So Bill I mean, he he would bring the sticks out. We never really did much with it, But it was literally the first lacrosse that guy ever held. And he, He was, I don't know, twenty three, twenty four. So we used to go see the Long Island Tomahawks was an indoor league that was on for a few years. We go in Nassau, and there'd be there'd be a hundred and fifty people and, you know, ten of us, you know, thirteen, fourteen year olds Just chasing balls in the stands. But that was literally the first time I I held the stick, and I do remember that. I do remember him. And so when I when it was I had to figure out where I was going to high school. My older brother was At Holy Trinity on Long Island, I was thinking about Holy Trinity, but at the end of the day, All my buddies were going to division, the public school, and I knew my parents really didn't have the money for us for me to go because they were saving it for their favorite child, Jerry. It would've come out three years from here. They they can really predict the future. They Should've done much more of that with Wall Street. They knew I was more of the intellect and. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get to we'll get to you later. So I played football, and, towards the end of at the end of football, I don't know how it happened, but everybody started talking about lacrosse because division had a good lacrosse history. Had a good lacrosse team, and I'm like, I never played lacrosse. So basically, Myself and probably at least two thirds of the team had never picked up a stick. So, you know, my best friend lived down the street from me, and he was a tremendous athlete, ended up Going to Maryland to play. So we just got sticks and started playing. And so I I get my stick in the middle middle of January with my My birthday and just started playing. And it was fun with your friends. It it was So much more fun than football. I love playing football. Love playing football games. I hate it. Despise football practice. Yeah. Me too. Yeah. Just it just has no fun. You can have fun in a in a lacrosse practice. Right. Yeah. We had a lot of fun. And these were all my closest friends. And we were all starting together, and and we just progressed, you know, from that ninth Great team to our senior year where, you know, we were the best team on Long Island. That's awesome. Jerry, just like recruiting today, most of your guys pick up a stick, you know, just starting freshman year and then become three time all Americans. You know, it's just how it works. Right? They pick up one of their seven sticks Sat there there. They have one for each day of the week. Jerry, what was it like for you growing up in Levittown there Long Island, and tell us about your experience when you first started out. Did Well, I think what did I want to do? You or or not? Oh, of course. But I think one one of the reasons why there's so many really good athletes from Levittown. It's like you know? There there was some some real characters and hoodlums in that town. Like, You really you had to dodge people throwing rocks and bottles at you driving down the street. So it really really helped develop your agility as you walk around toes, as you walk around town, people throwing, you know fireworks at you. Oh, actually drove drove by. Batteries. What's that exactly? So, You know, coach Tierney was the gym teacher at at Saint Bernard's, and, you know, he was, You know, obviously, it still remains a very charismatic character, and, you know, it was it was almost like a pied Piper, it it didn't really convert much like Steve was saying. It did there was a a youth team, the were they the Tomahawks, Steve? What was the Tomahawks. Yeah. But We didn't play. Like, we again, we played hoop and and football, and and it hadn't really kinda converted. Yeah. And so when Steve started playing, I didn't, like you know, by the time my brother became, like, one of the great players in college. Lacrosse, I wasn't even playing yet. You know? I I it's gonna not come out right, but, like Like, I grew, like, six or seven inches in one year, and I you know? It it was an awkward phase that some people still I think I'm going through. But but, you know, I I I legitimately got cut from every team at Chaminade. So my parents it looked like a great decision to send me to the academic school and let my brother let my brother go to the public school in town. And I I I it's a real story. Like, I cut got cut from there. I love the basketball. I peaked. My peak basketball was, like, freshman year. I made the freshman team at. And my mother Literally was chastising me. Like, I was reading by doing my summer reading like a Chaminade that gave you a book to read during the summer, and I'm sitting there reading. I my guess, it was like Papillon or the Hobbit or something. And I'm reading that my mother, we had this room in our house. You know? You know? This is Long Island in the mid eighties. You had a room that you no one went in unless you had guests. Right. That rug. We didn't have plastic on the furniture, but it was closed. And and so I'm sitting in this room that I'm not Supposed to be laying, and my mother comes walking in. She's like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm reading my doing my summary, and she goes, no. What are you doing? Gotta get up and do something. She's like, not the motivation you want. My mother's like, look at your bro I'm not saying she was smoking, but she might have been smoking. He was like Put that book down. Look at your brother. He's like one of the best players in the sport. He just started playing, like, three years ago. Okay. Basically, You're a stiff. What are you doing? You should play this sport. So I gave it so literally that summer, My brother is a, I don't know, sophomore junior at Virginia, and Jim Adams ran a camp at Blair Academy. Oh god. And I, you know, I Is that in New Jersey? Blair's Town, New Jersey? Town. And and I've never played I've never played lacrosse before. And Wow. And my mom's like, you know, I just talked to missus, whatever, missus Smith. You know, Johnny's sick. They have an extra spot in the camp. You you your brother's working the camp. You're going. I'm like, So that's why that book here. Put it down. Yeah. Put that book down, you nerd. And and I went to the camp, And I got connected with, you know, guys that I had con kinda gone to grammar school with who are now going to public script, the Cook family, which is a famous Cornell Family. Eddie was my year. Todd Esposito became a great player at Virginia. Joe Weimdart, my one of my closest friends, was the First all American in Saint John's history. So this group of guys from our tower are going to this camp, and Steven was freaking the camp. And we went, and Yeah. An unbelievable time. I fell in love with the game, and, you know, we terrorized this camp, which is a whole other podcast, But it was you know, that was the thing. So Bill, being the gym teacher, kind of exposed us to the game. And but, Like, my mother's, you know, basically, lighting a fire under my ass. My brother as an as a model of a guy who was a really good athlete and just could kinda and fell in love with it too. It was you know, that was inspiring. My mom challenging me and then just kind of Go into this camp with a bunch of guys you grew up with, and those guys are my friends to this day based on just going to that camp. Wow. That's awesome. Great great story. You have such great stuff. So, Son I I think I have the next Question. I'm sorry, Jay. Sorry. Go ahead. To the script here. Steve, back to you if it's alright with Ron. Now as a Levittown Division Blue Dragon. Who are some of your biggest rivals in high school? And then just as a little follow-up on that too is how did you when did you know you wanted to Play college lacrosse, and what was that recruiting process like? But I I was hoping I went to Garden City High hoping maybe we were good enough to be your guys' rivals back then. Eventually, we were. Yeah. Oh, god. No. So, I mean Yeah. I think the you know, Other than memorial but memorial was okay, you know, when when we were playing. So when I was freshman, sophomore, and then varsity, We never had an issue with them, but we always Garden City was a was a huge rival. We all knew who the were. We knew the houses were. And so we played them ninth grade, tenth grade, eleventh grade, twelfth grade. So they were in our in our group. Right. And so we, you know, we disliked them. Right? But I understand that. It was a big rivalry when I was there. But it it was it was a really good rivalry, and it was real it was like there was, like, mutual respect. And there so so it's like I don't hate them, but you know, I I have a I have the challenge for me on rivals is who do I hate more? Cold Spring Harbor or Manhasset. That's right. Right? Manhasset. Good deal. It's a good list right there. But it was all but it was also there was a, You know, not between the players, but and probably more evident now. But it was it was it was also you know, there's two socio two different social Oh, yeah. That's That was that, dude. I mean so Jerry Jerry Jerry reminded me of a story I've I've told. He was at a Harvard event a few weeks ago. He calls me. He goes, I told you a story. I and everybody wanted to hear it. Let's Tell him that to tell Oh, that's a Mickey Kabuto. Oh, great. And Mickey and I are classmates at Garden City. So we we were, I think I was I think it was our freshman year, maybe our sophomore year. I mean, and and my cohort, the guys that I Went four years with we were really good. And we had good teams. Division had good teams each year. My junior year, we beat Carden City in the in the semifinals. And I I I was covering Hollis who was outstanding. We were all over more stealth, and it was, you know, it was a huge win. We played them at at our place. But when I was in I think it was nineteen ninety nine. Piece of grass on that field. Right? That's bizarre. We actually go to groundskeeper at Levittown Division. Right. No groundskeeper position. Yeah. The gravel field. It's terrible.

Jay: 20:31

How about if we transition to. J m l and let's do that. We'll get into a little bit of the mindset. We'll do a mindset minute here.

20:40

Steve and Jerry burn are describing the mentality of their team. Uh, mentality developed growing up in the hardscrabble environment of Levittown New York on long island. And that sense of self as being less privileged than their neighboring towns of Manhassett garden, city and cold spring Harbor motivated them and fuel them to play with. With what. With energy, with emotion with high octane. And when faced with adversity to overcome it time and time again. Of course not everyone. Is from a less than, or financially underprivileged upbringing. But we can all appreciate the fact. That what was motivating the burn brothers and fueling their intense emotions, regardless of the tangible differences in their standard of living was simply an intangible idea in their mind. Having played against the Levittown division blue dragons two times a year and often a third time come the playoffs while at garden city high school. I know from experience how tough their athletes were and are. And having coached many players over the years. I know a lot of players struggle with the intangible quality of toughness. Especially young players. They have trouble wrapping their mind. Around being tough. But what is toughness? Let's think about who exemplifies toughness. All current and former top lacrosse players like Gary and Paul gate, Dave Petra, Mala, Brody Merrill, Paul, we're able. Bile Thompson, Rob Pinell Warren are all tough. We could think of basketball, greats like Michael Jordan, LeBron James, and even smaller, less physical players like Allen Iverson or Steph Curry. Steph Curry is not a physically imposing player, but he is tough. So toughness can be thought of as being competitive and being competitive can be thought of as going all out, giving a full effort. Not a partial effort. Not trying some of the time, but giving it everything we've got. Digging deep into every fiber of our being and unleashing all we can summon and every moment of a contest, regardless of outcome, that is toughness. So toughness is an idea. A decision. As to how we will act on the field of play. Dumb storage. He used to say. Consistency. Is the most powerful form of mental toughness. And why are we talking about toughness? Because toughness is one of only four. Elements that all college lacrosse coaches use to evaluate a recruit. So each and every one of us, regardless of our background. I can make the decision to go all out. Uh, consistently. To simply make that decision. We can get motivated by that challenge to remain focused and present and to demand the very best effort. Not a perfect effort, not a mistake, free performance, but an all out effort. Which will be hard for any opponent to match. We can all do that. We can all create an idea as to why we are going to go all out. Not hold back in this or any particular contest we can decide to truly and absolutely give it everything we've got no matter what. And every moment of every minute of that contest. We can decide to not quit when things don't go our way we can decide to act as if our very lives depended on the all-out effort. And if we do, we'll see the kind of results. The hardscrabble blue dragons of Levittown division. With players like Steve and Jerry burn saw time after time. Mentioned earlier, we put together a Patrion page for the show. This will allow those interested in supporting our efforts to do just that and to get exclusive access to unedited interviews. Big discounts on JML online courses and merchandise from our new online store. We have big additions to the JML course catalog. Now we have a defenseman's course taught by none other than UVA head lacrosse, coach Lars, Tiffany, and to goalie course taught by former two time All-American and two time national champion and UVA assistant coach kept Turner. You can check out our Patrion page with the link that is listed in the description, as well as taking a look at the online store again, with the link listed in the description. We will return to our interview in progress. So my freshman year and and In sophomore year, coach was a basketball guy named Randy Mertz, who was, like, probably my favorite coach of all time. He kept it fun. Kinda didn't know what he was doing, but he knew basketball and lacrosse were close enough. Couldn't catch or throw the Ball. But he knew how to manage us, and we were, you know, we were talented, undisciplined, little crazy. We fought all the time. We our freshman year, the AD had to come to us Probably two thirds through the meeting as to the season said, if you you guys have one more fight, you're not playing next year. Oh. And so so we couldn't fight anymore. So so, you know, we all and we you know, We're we're talking to the upperclassmen, so we're finding out about Manhasset, and we're finding out about Cold Spring Harbor and Garden City, all the big names, all the really good And and so we're playing Manhasset at Manhasset. I think it's our our sophomore year. And he gets us and he was a big time, like, rah rah guy, so he gets us in a wrestling room. And so we go to the wrestling room and, you know, we we haven't fully dressed yet, and he has all these, like, eight by eleven, pages with, you know, helter skelter on it and all this, like, pump up stuff. And so we're you know, there's twenty of us, twenty one, And he's he's trying to get us jacked up. He goes, you're going to Manhasset. These guys are the best. Right? And he's just he just pumping them up. And he's going then he stops, and he goes, look at you guys. You got nothing. He goes, your jerseys don't match. So we look around at each other, and we're like, yeah. You're right. We don't because we we're on we're always on austerity. And and so you're getting hand me downs from different, you know, purchases. So one guy says dragons. The other guy says Division. Division. You know? Same numbers. You know, you'll see you've got no shorts. You're short. You guys look like, you know, rag pickers. You know, you got you don't have this. You don't have this. And he stops. He goes, and they have it all. That's it was like best class warfare. They they have it all. You got Dante. They got this. They got that. They got beautiful cars. You should see their lawns. He goes, and they got ivy. And it's quiet, and somebody raises their hand. And they coach, what's Ivy? And he goes, you'll see what we get there. That's great. We're we're gonna kill him. Gonna Gonna straggle to that Ivy. That was part of the love of the game in Levittown is to hate the the other socioeconomic folks. Right. Boris. Yeah. They're throwing, but they don't have heart like we have. That's good stuff. Like that story. So, Jerry, you're down at this camp raising hell at Blair, And now you're back at Chaminade. And so how does your career after getting caught from every team imaginable, I need to go from there to you know, how does your high school career progress? And then and then where does how does the UMass thing happen? How do you get interested in co going to play with coach Garber? Well, you know, the so I come back, and I you know, it's August, and I remember playing summer league. Summer league was at, like, Berner High School or Massapequa High School, Long Island. And I just started playing with the the Levittown division Guys, they needed some bodies for their summer league team. So it kinda it perpetuated. And so by the time and I played at that camp. I played midfield, And then I decide and and I changed to attack. This is my my junior year. And by the time the season came around, I've told this story before because it's it's an old timer. The yeah. I'm not Chaminade. The head coach of Chaminade is still the current head coach of Chaminade, Jack Moran, Richie Moran's nephew. Right. And Jack happens to become from the LVT. He's from Levittown. He coached my brother, you know, freshman or, you know, g g g Yeah. My my junior year. He benched me. Yeah. So so by this point, since my junior year, Steven's either a freshman or sophomore in Virginia, And I go to tryout. And, again, I played one season of a sport at Chaminade, Freshman basketball. Have not played a sport since. Have not made a team since. And the first thing they do at Chaminade is they have a mile run. And so I show up for a mile run, and my parents had just come back from a trip to Ireland. And and they went to the Iran Islands. So, Jay, you're Irish, is the Iran Islands are famous for their fishermen sweaters, their cable knit Sweater. It's like a little scratchy, but Right. You think you take a bullet. Right? Right. I show up to the mile run with that sweater on, And Jack Moran almost, like, cut me on-site. Like and I'm a hundred percent convinced that the only reason he kept me on that team, and I didn't play At all, my my junior year. I was as an attackman. That the only reason he kept me is because my brother had become one of the great Players in college lacrosse, and you knew we weren't a I wasn't adopted because we were. And so so I made the team, but didn't play. And then the next year, I decided to play defense because my brother was you know? He was a a protector. He was my, You know, he was an inspiration. He was, you know, a guy who did the work. You know, he want when he decided he wanted to be good, he'd be doing, You know? A lot of curls in the in the garage in Levittown with, you know, those those crappy weights we had. Right. And and, you know, did you like, You'd do you'd have, like, tied boxes. You know? You'd be like, last night, whatever the, you know, whatever was heavy in that in that garage. So, like, Seeing my brother do that, I think about that to this day. Like, alright. I wanna be good. I gotta do some work. If I wanna be like him, I have to do that work. And, ult ultimately, you know, my my my senior year, I had, you know, I, you know, I was six two, a hundred and thirty nine pounds when I graduated high Oh my god. That's a lane. I was like Good height, though. You think you think my my mom had me on, like, some sort of, like, diet. I was locked in my room, not eating. You know, it turns out if you eat a lot of Captain Crunch and and Thomas's English muffins, it doesn't put a lot of weight. And so so I end up applying to a bunch of schools, including Virginia. I got I was a I was a good student. I didn't have a I have pretty good Test scores, but not elite, and I didn't get into Virginia because I wanted to to you know, I wasn't getting recruited. I didn't get recruited by Anybody. So I ended up going to UMass because Jack Moran played at UMass. And And, you know, and I listen. I ended up having an unbelievable academic experience at at UMass. You know? I I really believe that you can get a great anywhere if you if you care enough. So I I had a great academic experience. I had a great athletic experience there. I didn't I didn't even bring my equipment. I went my my the captain of of my team at Chaminade was recruited to UMass, and I went to the first practice and sat On this not on the sideline, but far enough away that I didn't look it wasn't obvious. And I watched them practice, and I'm like, I can hang with those guys. So I I called my dad, and my dad was a New York City fireman. And my dad drove up, Drove my high school equipment up so I could show up for the next Wow. Day. And I'm not sure my dad turned off the car. I think he gave me the roll up orders for for a laundry and smoked a butt and then left. Right. You know? And so but, like, you know, like, your parent your parents did that, you know, back then. Right? And so then I Yeah. To practice and ended up being one of the freshmen who made the team. And, You know? It you know, lessons around, you know, putting yourself out there, which are, you know, I think very, you know, they're getting lost a little bit these days. Everybody wants a an easy runway toward toward things, and, you know, I needed to see with my own eyes that I could hang with people. And then then, like, from that point, like, spend a lot of time like, not in a bad way, like, in my brother's shadow relative to the game. And I I've said this many times. Like, One of my for a long time, I ended up playing in the MLL when I was almost forty years old, was this pursuit of my brother and his stature and status in the game. And, again, it wasn't a very joyous Pursuit because, like, when you do that's such a wrong reason to pursue something, you know, to even though My brother was an unbelievable inspiration. I mean, he never made me feel bad about, like, following his footsteps and things like that. But, like, I I took a lot of time And but not a lot of great time to try to create my own kinda legacy and persona in the game. Mhmm. Jerry, I really appreciate you sharing about it. Time. Yeah. Well, I and, Jerry, like, having, You know, seeing you play and having played against you in some club tournaments, you know, with Sailing Shoe in Brown State. Like, I can't believe that You're describing the player that you're describing to me, you know, like, who didn't play at all until senior year, wasn't recruited, And you go from that to three world team tryouts. You know? So I'm available. It it's it's a great story, as you said, of of work and perseverance and and you know, willing yourself into being an amazing player. I never would have guessed that sort of having watched you later in your career when you were I just know you as a great defenseman. So Yeah. That's something. That's amazing. So, Steve, you played for You know, it's interesting. You guys both played for iconic coaches. Right? I mean, two of the legends in the coaching world. And and, Steve, you played for for Ace Adams and some incredibly talented teams and and you among the most talented of the bunch. So what was it like to play for Ace Adams and and college lacrosse back in the in the early eighties. You know, you you guys are just year in a year out amongst the best in the country. Yeah. No. You know, it was funny because and, you know, Jerry being, you know, know, such a great coach and just a phenomenal recruiter. You take what happens today And flip it on his head because in the seventies and they I think even into the eighties, a lot of these coaches Didn't come see players. I mean, Ace Adams, he coached at Penn, so he loved Mike Paige, who was a Levittown guy, who was the midfielder of the year at Penn, was a eighty two national team player. He I think he was seventy seven. His other brother played at Cornell. So coach Adams Was looking at Bob Page, and Bob was a year above me. He was a close friend. So he was a he was a seventy eight grad. I was a seventy nine grad. And so you know, I I got recruited. The Jack Emer really wanted me to come play at Washington and Lee. So that was one of the trips I took my senior year which is a strange Was a strange trip. We end up losing Syracuse, but it was a it was a I I really can't tell you the story on on Still classified. Podcast. Different podcast. Channel. But the guy the guy who was ace's eyes and years on Long Island was Tom Flatley. Oh, yeah. And and Tom Flatley was a coach, and we scrimmaged remember, we scrimmaged Like a ad division on not even on our on our main field is on the on that Not on the main gravel Phil, this was Not not on the field. Not on the football field. Let me tell you something right now. Football field with all the glass, and we had the, The volunteer cages with the fencing instead of the netting. Oh my god. We played them on Nashville. I was covering Mike Caravanagh and Oh, yeah. Did a did a good job on him. So Flatley was watching me, and so I had no idea that he was talking to Coach Adams. Because coach Adams never saw me play. So he would he was talking coach Adams was talking to Bob Page, And then he gets my phone there, and he says, I'd like you to come down with with Bob Page on a recruiting trip my senior year. And Bob was at at at Nassau. And he was I think he was the attackman of the year. He was a fantastic player. And Playing at the community college. Yeah. Yeah. Him and him and Dougie Hall were running mates. They were, like, the two attack men, and they were, like, just hellacious riders. So I went down to EVA and kinda not realizing, You know, they're they're really interested in me. So I spent a weekend there with two guys from, from Long Island, one guy from Sewanica, one guy from from Farmingdale. And coach brings me in. He's and he he says, I heard all these good things. Bap bap bap. And he goes, we like to offer you a half a scholarship. And I'm like, I was I was literally blown away. I I'm I'm thinking. I'm in my mind. I think if I well, if I can get in I gotta figure out how I'm gonna pay for this because, you know, my my parents didn't have the money for that. Yeah. Did you have a jean jacket and jeans on at the same time? And a white comb in your back pocket? Well, that that that's, There I have a picture. I have to send it to you guys of of me and and coach Verne. So it's in front of my dorm at EVA, and it's the day of the move in day, and we had gone to Busch Gardens down in Virginia Beach. Oh, yeah. I I am wearing a Anheuser Busch beer cap on. I got an Anheuser Busch beer T shirt. I've got my cutoff football And trim them when that was a thing, you cut the football pants off. Steve, I'm not sure that was ever a thing. I I don't I'm not sure. Eleventown, it was the thing. Put time to Eleventown, it was. Okay. Right. So I said and then Jerry's Jerry's standing next to me, And he's, like, five seven. He's like Oh, yeah. He's at my shoulder. Right. And and then he just shot up. And so you know, for for me, the recruiting was Jack Emmer, and I like w and l. It was small, but you were surrounded by girls' schools. They had a good team. There was a Levittown guy on the team, Jerry Broccoli from Memorial. But when I got on TV, yeah, like First of all, That's like a name from, like, Goodfellas. Jerry Brockley. Jerry Brockley. Two times is Jerry Brockley who who likes, you know, green beans. See, Val? Right. Yeah. And Joey Acey Grokalini. There's there's another guy from Memorial who played Tommy Federico. So at one time Nice. In nineteen eighty, between North Carolina and UVA, there were no. I was let me see. For Virginia, NC State, and then Carolina, there were eleven Levittown guys playing between those three schools. Wow. That's amazing. And those schools were never the same after. They were not the same. About right about that time they started putting locks on lockers. Jerry, I also like you know, you I really appreciate how you talked about The great education you got at UMass Amherst, and your brother's talking about Washington league. It was surrounded by a lot of girls schools, so that got me very interested. You know? Not It didn't seem like he was exploring the curriculum down there very much, Jerry. No. It was you know, I I was always jealous of Jerry because, Number one, he was smarter, and he was more diligent than I was. But he also went to a really good school, and I cannot I mean, I I was, you know, I was top of the class at division. I get down to UVA, and, you know, they wanted to toss me because I could barely write. You know? And so it was it was honest to God. Didn't have the same preparation? Yeah. I mean, it's it it was it was a two year battle just to stay in school. You know? But one of the things Steve went, like I I tell, You know, Steve's line's better than him sometimes. One of the things that he would say about him, Mike Caravanagh, for your listeners, was a, you know, probably the best attackman on Long Island In nine in nineteen seventy nine when he's graduated, Steve was the best defenseman on Long Island that year, and they both end up at UVA. And Steve would tell the story. It's like, By day two, we felt three years behind. You know? I mean, you know, like, you know, Rod, you're too young. Like, back when you had to, like, Learn how to like like, the concept of a term paper and citations and, like, the whole concept of footnoting Might as well have been Sanskrit. Like, how did like, if you could like, a Chaminade, if you didn't cite And, like, if the comma and the semicolon, like, all the stuff that went into that, if you didn't do that right, it was like a letter grade. So my brother goes down to to so, like, for me, ironically, I wasn't good enough to play at Virginia and probably would have been fine academically. Wait. My brother was a perfect fit. But my brother was smart. He is a great rider. The fact that, you know, you felt behind as a rider, it's one of his His great skills and gifts. They always kill. That was that was the this thing. I I go I'm getting my ass kicked everywhere. I go out Creative writing. I know I can do this. First paper, d minus, red all over the page, and it was a it was a TA, this young woman. And I said, this can't be right. She goes, I I can see something in there, but But, but what defined out exactly what that young woman TA. At the university of Virginia in the seventies found in that paper. You'll have to come back next week. As we continue with our series with the brothers burn. Can't wait to see you then.

Ron: 43:55

until we meet again, here to, hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the Get the LAX coop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.