S1 E37. National Champions, Coaches Sean Kirwin & Mikey Herring's Epic, Big Green Adventure, Part II.

In this second installment of our two part interview with Dartmouth Head Coach Sean Kirwan and his Offensive Coordinator Mikey Herring we hear of what Coach Kirwan considers the special sauce of Championship teams. And Coach Kirwan, who’s won a DIII title with Tufts as a player and another as a Coach and who’s Coached two teams who lost in the DI semi-finals both in OT as well as coaching two Virginia teams to the NCAA D1 title, should know!

Next, both coaches discuss their exciting process, this past summer, as they chose to reunite in Hanover, N.H. to coach the Big Green of Dartmouth! For Sean Kirwan it was a matter of realizing that this Ivy League school “Checked all the boxes,” he was looking for, in a head coaching position. And for assistant coach Mikey Herring “All the stars aligned,” as he took advantage of the opportunity to work with Coach Kirwin, his college coach, and work at his father’s Alma Mater and coach the team his father played for a generation ago. 

And finally, our roving reporter Steve Gresalfi completes our segment with some intriguing, awkward, and hilarious questions about both our guest’s experiences with Coach Lars Tiffany of UVA.  

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Transcript

Jay: 0:00

it's time for get the La Scoop, a podcast bringing you all the people and stuff you should know. In the game of lacrosse, we take LAX seriously, but ourselves, not so much. Join hosts, big Dog and Jaybird, and the biggest names in the game. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Ron Doish, the big dog, was a collegiate football and lacrosse player at Brown. He was also an assistant lacrosse coach and the executive director of the sports found. and Jay McMahon, the Jaybird, a three time All-American Midfielder Brown. He was a captain of the US Junior National team and is the founder of J M L. And joining us in the studio, Steve gfi, who's collegiate lacrosse career statistics equals one goal against Dartmouth. Brought to you by Jay McMahon lacrosse. That's J M L Skills, mindset, and LAX IQ training. Helping the next generation cross players. Get to the next level.

0:59

Welcome to another episode of get the lack scoop. We got two great guests who have played and coached at the highest levels of division one and division three lacrosse. And we're super excited to have them. Yes, Ron bow. That is true. We are super excited to give you the second installment of our interview series with coaches, Sean Kerwin and Mikey herring. If you haven't already I'd recommend going back and listening to our first episode with these two national champions, it was a doozy. He will find our interview in progress Now, coach crew and I got a long one for you here. So hang with me now, one of the things that's been so impressive with the offenses that you coached at Brown and Virginia is this resilience that the teams have shown. And another great example is that 2021 championship season where you had some ups and downs. And I know early you guys lost to Syracuse by like 10 goals. It was like 20 to 10. And they were saying how that was the biggest margin of victory ever in the history of that rivalry. And you actually had lost to Syracuse twice, which I know you know, but I just want to kind of build it up here. And Syracuse wasn't all that good that year. They lost in the first round by like 12 goals. And then UNC comes to town and they were very good in 2021. And it was not close. It was like 10 to 4 at halftime, maybe down 6 or 7 into the 4th quarter. At the end, though, you guys did play really well and it was 16 13. But I was fortunate enough to be at your guys ring ceremony after the 21 season, and I think it was John Fox saying that, like, we were wondering if we could even compete that year. in the ACC. And then you guys go down and I went to this game at UNC when you played them again and won 18 to 16. That was one of the best games ever. But you guys had so much confidence. It was incredible. And then you never look back after that. It was just total confidence the rest of the season. And then you got to play the Tar Heels again, who are the number one seed in the tournament in the semifinal, in the final four. You win that game. By a goal, and then you go and beat a very formidable, undefeated University of Maryland team in the championship. And that team had just destroyed a very good Duke team in the semifinal. So the question is, you know, how do you guys do that? To keep the belief in yourselves, in the players, despite being down, despite losses during the season. Like, how do you help these guys keep believing in their ability to basically go out and beat any team in the country? Yeah, it's, uh... It's a great question, right? And I don't think there's a cut and dry black and white answer to it. Uh, but I will tell you that some of the things that, you know, all those teams had in common, uh, was when adversity hit, you know, there was a big kind of feeling of like just falling back on what got us there, right? Falling back on the habits that, that we trained with. And then in a lot of ways, my job was to simplify things, right? Sometimes. Some of those, those struggles came from, you know, overcomplicating it., and so for me, you know, there was always moments and times and in all those seasons where it was, Hey, let's just get back to basics, right? Let's just try to have some mini victories. Let's build some momentum, and then try to get the ball rolling that way. And, you know, I love what, what Mike, you said earlier, right? You need. You know, when you, when you're down, when people write you off, you need that irrational confidence, you need that coach Dale used to always say delusional optimism, right? That's a, that's a core principle to, to that, to that resiliency, because, you know, especially when you play at an uptempo style, you know. That style lends to that in the fact that no, no margin feels that, you know, out of reach, right. And how quickly this game can turn, you know, with the way the face off the X can be played. And, you know, you can just stack goals and create these mini runs that can really steal the momentum back, uh, whether it's game to game or quarter to quarter or in 2019 minute to minute. It felt like, right. So, um, you know, those are some of the four principles that have been, you know, a part of every team that I've been in the college level, starting with those tough teams that I played at to the, the ones that I coached to Brown to, to these UVA championship teams. Uh, you know, they all had that, that delusional optimism, but at the same time, there was a core commitment to just basic fundamentals and not over complicating the game and just trying to stack those many victories and build that momentum. Right. That's great. I like that phrase, delusional optimism. Gonna have to use that. Yeah, it's a good one. That's stuck with me forever. Yeah. Nice. So, uh, Sean, I want to explore a little bit more this, uh, you know, looking at your resume. I mean, I kind of know it, but God damn, you've been around a lot of Final Fours and championship games as a player and a coach. I mean, geez. And, and I'm wondering though, you know, While there's a lot of success and, and the glory that comes on winning the championships, there's also been some heartbreaking moments, right? And great teams that didn't quite achieve that ultimate goal. Having been around as many of those teams as you have, can you point to what the difference was? Do you look back on those championship teams and go, you know what, they really did have that little something extra. Um, or coaches, it just, you know what, some games, some days, you know, you just, that other team makes one more play or you, or you don't, how do you think about, um, processing, uh, all those, those great teams and the ones that ultimately achieve. The championship dream and those who don't, yeah, that's, you know, it's not something that I've spent a ton of time thinking about, but you know, the, the first thing that pops into my head was, you know, it's such a razor thin margin, right? The difference between, you know, think of just this past year, that 2023 Virginia team, right? That's as talented of an offensive group as I've ever been around and, you know, they, they came up short and, you know, so, you know, when I think about, you know. Some of the things that were consistent through the teams that did win. Um, there's a little bit, and again, I don't know if this is necessarily the main factor and the difference between, but I do know that all these championship teams that, that, you know, kind of made it to the, to the mountaintop, they all at one point were like pretty written off. You know, there was a moment in time in the seat where they were afterthoughts. There was a, you know what, it's not their year. Um, and then, you know, so you get a little bit of that underdog backs against the wall, kind of insiders only type of mentality that can, as a coach, really, uh, pour gasoline on. For your players, right? And really get them to to be a little bit extra motivated, have a little bit more of a chip on the shoulder, play a little bit harder, right? And so, you know, those were consistent for every team that won a championship. And so that's interesting. And again, it's not necessarily that those other teams didn't have those moments. But I mean, that 2016 Brown team was Pretty good the whole time, right? I don't think anyone was right. Same often. Same thing with last year's team. And I think if Dylan Molloy didn't get injured, that might've had a different outcome. Yeah, I would. I would agree with that. I think I heard quickest Nick say that on TV a couple of times. Yeah, that's why that one I don't have a ton of heartbreak with because that to me is there's a little bit of an asterisk there, but that's for another for another time. But, uh, you know, I do also think another consistent that that those championship teams has there were a couple games. I call them like complimentary games where very clearly one side of the ball needed to win that game. Right. So, you know, when I think of 2019, right, the ACC championship game, I think we beat Notre Dame 10 to four, but it was a game where it was like, that was our defense that we were not good on offense, but that was that game was clearly won by our defense. And then fast forward to 21, you know, we were in a dogfight against Brian. Our offense was sleepwalking for what felt like the entire game and our defense, just keeping us in it, keeping us in it, have those moments. Where you feel like, okay, like we can win in different ways, right? We can be like, it's not the same way we're winning every game. And I think that's a really true mark of a championship caliber team. Cause you just don't know, come championship weekend, come the playoffs, what style you're going to need to play to win those games. You just don't know how it's going to fall. And so that's super interesting. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, Sean, cause you know, you talk about that. That brown final 14. I mean, Dylan Beloy was pretty good, but that got Jack Kelly in the cage. He was okay, too. You know, he could win you, he could win you a game at that end, you know, so that's, that is really interesting to think about teams that can win on either end of the field and that old adage too, like You know, it's like you almost don't want to go into the playoffs undefeated. You want to have, you want to have experienced some adversity, right? That gets your attention and gets that edge back. No, no question. And, and coach and Mikey can tell you too, like I, I'm a sucker for, for pouring that gasoline on that, that fire, any, any bit that I could get those offensive guys at UVA to be foaming out the mouth a little bit more, you know, I was jumping at those opportunities to do it. Cause it's, you know, it's, it is motivation. Right? And it's, you know, you kind of get that you get those guys to just be a little bit more dialed in and practice, right? And just get a little bit more focus on on the finer details because they want to in some ways, you know, no one wants to be told they can't do something that wants to be written off. So it's a little bit of that. Prove it mentality that can really drive a team to another level. That's great. So let's let's uh, transition a little bit to you guys finding your way to hand over New Hampshire and uh, You know, Sean, you know, take us through what must have been a really exciting time for you, because obviously Kind of the pinnacle of, of, of coaching is to get to that division one head coaching, uh, level and, and in a, in one of the conferences that has proven it can win national championships. Um, but obviously you got incredible relationships and roots at UVA and with the coaching staff that you've been with so long. So take us through, you know, the, the process of, uh. Of looking at and then deciding that was right up. Yeah, it's, um, something that's been on my, on my mind for, you know, a handful of years now, um, knowing that, you know, when I got into college coaching, my number one goal was to be a coordinator at an ACC school. Um, that obviously happened a lot quicker than I ever expected. And so that really shifted my. Whole mentality and my goals of like, what was next? Um, you know, I'm terrified. I think it's been just kind of ingrained in me from all my coaches in the past, just never being complacent. And so when you have a goal achieved, so it's like, okay, what, what is the next step? And so, For me, it was, all right, I got to start wrapping my head around being a head coach. That was never something that was on my radar. and so, you know, slowly but surely started to get myself more prepared and started to think about, okay, what does that program look like? What, what, what am I looking for in that opportunity? Like, what are things that excite me about taking that jump? Because I, you know, for all intents and purposes, I was living out my dream down in Charlottesville. So there was no, I was not itching to leave. So it, I, it allowed me to be very thoughtful, and meticulous on, on what was needed for me to, to take that jump. And so, you know, one of the biggest things for me was, you know. Kind of based on who I was as a player, who, you know, and who I've coached is, you know, it needed to be a place that was a high academic institution. You know, obviously Dartmouth and the Ivy league checks that box in spades. You know, and I felt I've fallen in love with this league from growing, you know, the, you know, when I grew up, it was, you know, Princeton and then I want, you know, they were great in the 90s and early 2000s. And so obviously you knew about the Ivy League then. And then I watched my brother, do tremendous things, his class at Cornell. He was a part of that, that team that lost that heartbreaker to Syracuse. That was the senior year, you know, obviously a great, a great four years there and, you know, then get to coach at Brown. So, you know, it's a league that I always told myself there was ever an opportunity to be a head coach in that league. you know, I had to explore it and that included Dartmouth. Right. A place that has had some success, but never consistent success. So this was one that when it popped, it was like, okay, like now it's time to do my homework, right? And make sure this is a place that I knew it was a high academic institution. I knew the league it was in, but you know, the next big thing was, as I've alluded to, I'm a pretty competitive person. And so I needed to make sure that there was a roadmap to success. I didn't need it to be successful right away. But I needed to feel confident that, by putting in the work and surrounding myself with great people, that it could be successful consistently. And so, you know, very quickly through that whole process, that was one that it's something that I needed to flush out and ask a ton of questions about. And as you can tell, based on the shirt I'm wearing and, and we're taking this This call from it's, you know, obviously it felt very confident in the vision that this, the school has for the athletic department and the lacrosse program. And so, and just to follow up on that, like what were some of the boxes that you checked? Like, you know, speaking of the ad and you said you had a lot of support, what were some of the things that they, you know, assured you you'd have as you stepped on board? Yeah, it was, you know, again, I think it can be summed up as simply as when the chips were down, I needed to make sure there wasn't anything out of my control, out of our team's control, out of our staff's control that was going to hold us back from being successful. so, you know, that's a, a wide range from support staff to, help, you know, with admissions to roster size to all these things, facilities, right? Like they all. Are things in some ways can be out of your control, right? So, you know, I needed to feel like all of those things were aligned enough where now was up to just the guys in the program, right? Coaches, the players, right? If it was just up to us and the work that we put in, then that was a chance that I was willing to take. And so all those conversations with Mike Herity, the athletic director, I even got to talk to,, president by lock. See, I'm by lock just started. Like she hadn't even started yet. I think she had. Two more days on our old job, and she took time to call me and talk to me about everything. Wow. And so it's, you know, there's just an incredible alignment and support that we feel that's very, new in a lot of ways. Mm-Hmm. this is not, you know, if this were four or five years ago. I don't think this would be a job that I would be, you know, willing to explore and take. And so I think it's just timing's a really important thing too. And so it's really exciting time to be in Hanover to be at Dartmouth and think about, you know, the athletic department and lacrosse program. Right. That's great. And they gave you the freedom to go out and interview and select your own staff and that that sort of thing. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, and he knew this going in that the day that I became a head coach, he would be my first call, but to actually be able to pick up the phone and call Mikey here and ask him to join me was was something I was. Looking forward to for a long time, but that's something that he and I have been talking about, and I knew it was coming at some point just over the last couple of years in particular, that's awesome, beautiful, Mikey. That's a perfect segue to your thought process, right? So on the one hand, I mean, you know, a guy who coached you and you had a lot of success with. So you clearly have a great relationship. It's your dad's alma mater. So there's some things that feel like the stars are aligning. Yeah. On the other hand, you know, you're a guy who played at UVA, had tremendous success, is clearly building a coaching resume, and I imagine it's going to have other opportunities, so, you know, and, as Coach Kerwin alluded to, you know, you guys got a challenge in front of you, the Ivy League's a murderer's row, it's a really tough competitive league, just like you're used to in the ACC, you know, and so what was it for you that said, yeah, I want to go do this with Sean? Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, stars aligning is a really fitting term for kind of this summer and this whole process and ending up in Hanover, you know, obviously, Dartmouth's been a special place to my family, you know, with my dad, you know, going here and playing here. But, again, I think the biggest thing throughout this was doing this with coach Kerwin. again, he has been such a big, mentor to me and starting as a player. especially in that 2019 season, you know, I was able to, through compliance at UVA, actually be an unpaid intern. And so what that looked like was I could, you know, the team's off days, I could actually go in and watch film with coach Kerwin. And so that's really something that I, you know, I think I knew I wanted to get into with my dad. being a long time coach. And so,, coach really took me under his wing, you know, that that's really where, you know, I feel like our relationship kind of blossomed. And so,, to do this with Coach Kerwin is something that's really special, to me. And I can't tell you how much it means, you know, and it meant when he when I did. You know, finally received that call and we're able to kind of, you know, put this whole thing into action. And so I'm just so incredibly grateful, to be at such an amazing institution, you know, obviously, you know, it is going to be a challenge, right. And success doesn't come overnight, but, you know, really excited about the opportunity and the people, you know, I'm doing it with, and that starts with, with coach Kerwin. So I can't again, express how grateful I am for the opportunity. That's awesome. Mikey, give us, give us an insider perspective on. Coach on Sean as a coach, right? You, you've seen it as a player and now you're getting a window into it being a part of his coaching staff. What's made him so successful? What, how would you like, hey, you're going to be telling young kids to come play for you and coach Kerwin. So what, what do you say makes him, such a great coach? Yeah. You know, I think when you think about offensive minds, in the game of visual on the cross, right now, you know, coach Kerwin is, I'm biased, but the first that comes to mind, and if not, you know, in, in the first very few. That come to just, you know, the best offensive minds in the game right now. And so, I think his ability, I got to see it firsthand, but to just understand people's games and how to maximize, players strengths on the field, is something that really blew me away,, as a player. and really, he put me in a spot as a player to, to be successful and get, you know, maximize my ability. And so his, his ability to create relationships with his players, then also put them in spots to be successful is really second. To not, it was something that has really, you know, helped mold me and shape me into the coach. I am, uh, today. Great. And, now, Coach Kerwin, as this fall season's nearing completion, I'd imagine up there in Hanover, tell us what your first experience has been like as a head coach at Dortmund. Yeah, it's been, it's been a ton of fun. I'll be honest with you guys. It's a different feel of that, huh? Yeah, it's been busy. Uh, but man, has it been great to, to get to know the guys that we have here? They're a tremendous group of young men., you know, they, they are just a pleasure to be around. They work hard, they care about each other. You know, this is certainly a culture that we're inheriting that's far from broken. And it's a ton of credit to these guys. And, even through the change, you know, the way that they, you know, they truly love being around each other, which is in a lot of ways, the, the bare minimum of a culture, but it is the absolute necessity, right? That's the founding, like each other, right? The first thing. And so. You know, to get to work with them every day has been has been great and to get to know them, right? And that's such an important piece as coach Herring alluded to is, you know, it's part of our job is to make sure we're setting these guys up for success and putting them in the spots to be successful. And so that a lot of that is us learning about them, right? Not tell them what to do, but us putting them in situations where we can gather information and learn about them. And then. make the adjustments that we believe in that can help them maximize their potential. And so it's been a fall of growth. I forget who I was talking to, but you know, we have a group of 42 freshmen right now, right? Everybody in a lot of ways is a freshman, right? Like everything is new to these guys. And so there isn't the senior leadership to be able to say, Hey, no, this is how we do things. Like they're still, they're learning just like the freshmen are. And so. we've seen a steady growth, especially the last couple of weeks that we're really excited about. These guys are really bought in, they work tremendously hard and they're starting to see the results. And that's all you, all you can ask for as a coach and to see them. get more and more confident by the day because they're like, wow, this is it's working and wow, I am becoming a better lacrosse player. I'm becoming more confident. I can be a better decision maker in real time, right? They're seeing that, you know, firsthand. it's been a joy to watch and enjoy to be a part of. And so that's really been our fall. you know, we've been just keeping it in house. We didn't. scrimmage anybody. You know, we just kind of decided to work on ourselves and try to, you know, put ourselves in the best position to, you know, hit the ground running this spring. But, you know, we're just about wrapped up here. We only got a, what do we have? Four more practices left before the end of the term. And, and then we made these guys disappear for about a month or so we are just, we've had a lot of fun doing it and are really excited to continue to work with these guys to help them grow and improve. That's great. Awesome. Good. Now, Sean, if there's if there's one thing we know about you, you have a plan. I'm guessing so, yes. So tell us, Sean. What's what's the plan? Right? What? What do you think are, you know, those? Two or three real key things that, you know, you and Mikey and the program have to do over these next two to three years to build the kind of success that I'm, I'm sure you want to have at Dartmouth. Yep. yeah. So, I mean, the first one is we have to commit. To a, a really sound core of base fundamentals, right? I am as fast, free flowing and creative as these teams that I've been around are. They all, and when you strip it down, it's just a lot of meat and potatoes. It's very simple., it's, you know, doing things the right way., so we have to commit to that we have to be, you know, masters of the basics, and, and the boring, right? The mundane, basic fundamentals. The other one we have to, we have to become great decision makers, cause that's the, a huge philosophy that we have as a staff is empowering our guys to make those decisions themselves. You know, we're not gonna have a group that's going to look to the sideline for answers, right? They have to. You know, we, as a team, those guys that step between the lines on game day, they have to be set up with the tools to make great decisions, right? But then they also have to go and make the decisions themselves and learn from those decisions. Um, you know, and so that's another key thing that we need to make sure we continue to work on and continue to help these guys grow with. Uh, and then the last thing is, you know, it's, you know, you hear momentum a lot around here. You hear potential a lot around here, and those two things are great. Uh, but, you know, the biggest key of it all is just taking it day by day. Right. And as soon as we start thinking about the momentum that this program may have right now or the potential that we have this spring, I think we're doing ourselves a disservice. I tell it to my staff, the guys in our locker room all the time. We have a lot of work to do still right. And as soon as we start resting on our laurels is a day that we won't be successful. So really taking a day by day and just trying to get a little bit better every day. As cliche as it sounds, it could not apply more to this program and this team. We really need to stay focused on what we can do. As soon as tomorrow, when we have practice, uh, to just get a little bit better and keep this thing rolling. Mikey, is there a particular thing that you've really tried to focus on that you think you can bring? To those goals that that coach Kerwin set and that you've kind of set for yourself like the difference you want to make. Yeah, absolutely. Again, I think, you know, kind of piggybacking off what coach just said. I lived this as a player. And, you know, I think the biggest thing was, what can I do on a day to day basis to put myself and in turn the team. you know, to be successful, right? And that's not, again, not an overnight process. And so that's, that's the biggest thing, just trying to impart that with the guys that, you know, again, there is like coach said, you know, potential and momentum, but that doesn't just come and it starts on a day to day basis on a very small. small wins every single day, you know, lead to a bigger product. And so,, you know, I think, having that unique experience as a player and now as a coach, it's really helpful to try and, you know, help keep the guys grounded, and stay in the moment to make sure that we are getting a little bit better, you know,, each day. Great. Nice. Well, Ron, I think it's time to bring in our roving reporter, Steve Versalfi, to finish. I think it is, and it's a very interesting, interview today. This is an important episode for you, Steve, because as our, anybody who's been listening to our podcast knows, in the introduction, you're Career statistics do equal one goal against, I'm sorry, Mikey and Sean, against Dartmouth. So, Steve, this is a very important moment for you, I think. Yeah, that Not a full circle, Steve, isn't it? I'm not sure that program has ever recovered from that goal. Yeah. So, I hope that you guys are the ones that I really, I really do think, Steve, this, this could be like an exorcism. You know, interviewing the new head coach that sort of brings this full circle and let's coach Kerwin and coach Herring really launch the program. I love it. Right. I believe that you guys are what it's going to take to turn that franchise around. If anyone could do it, they could. Dartmouth. Dartmouth let up a goal. That, uh, went down in history. That was a kick ass goal. Steve's senior year. Oh, sure. It was his last games. It was amazing. Tremendous. Um, yeah, so my, my, you know, I know you guys, uh, you know, you guys have impressive lacrosse careers, but, uh, you know, we could go on about that goal. For an entire episode, if we wanted to do a special edition, but instead, uh, we're going to play another edition of pass fail. Now,, normally we were reserving this., this game for Brown alum because it's named in honor of the various Brown alumni who may or may not have taken advantage of the SNC or pass fail grading option in order to remain safely above the NCAA minimum 2. 0 grade hours. But, Sean's time on College Hill qualifies him to play. So I think every player for Brown lacrosse is guilty as charged. Maybe. Allegedly, Jay, allegedly. So, those records are sealed., so, Mikey, it's clear, like, I'm gonna throw out a topic, and,, both you and Coach Kerwin are going to give it a pass or a fail. And then, hopefully you can,, defend your choice with some added commentary. So our first topic, of the game is the Dartmouth motto. Vox Clementis in Deserto. It roughly translates to a voice crying out in the wilderness. You guys give that a pass or a fail and let me know. Gotta be a pass. Gotta be. I mean, you know, it's a pass to the party line, but it's a little, a little concerning, you know, a cry, somebody crying out in the wilderness. What does it mean? Who said that? Who said that? Who said that was us? That could be our opponents. That's true. There you go. As you can tell, Mikey, this part of the show takes on a little different flavor. Yeah, they don't let me talk about lacrosse, Mikey. I don't know enough about it to make any sense. Steve, give us, give us your sounds like phrase for this. Yeah, box, clementis and deserto sounds like it could be Latin for hawk and a loogie and the jello pudding. Right? Like, I love it. I guess we'll just have to trust the English. These guys are company men right now. They going to say? All right, well, let's abort. Let's go to the next one, Ron. We don't support the model at Dartmouth. The next topic will generally give that one a pass. Uh, the next topic is early spring season home games in northern New England. We're going to give those a pass or a fail. Um, as somebody who spent a lot of time on the sidelines during games, the outdoor games and cold weather are brutal on, on the scout team. I can tell you that just make sure that your warmups are warm. Send the extra money and make them line. Coach Herring, you want to go first? Uh, I'm going to give it a pass. You know, I think... He's a Massachusetts guy. Yeah, taking a, uh, patron, Coach Kerwin's book, you know, up here in New Hampshire, it's pretty cold. And especially in those early weather games, you know, we want to make our opponents feel as uncomfortable as possible. So, definitely a pass to play outdoors. You know, a little bit of uncomfortability where we're used to. So, it's, that's a good thing for us. Are we going to get that Virginia team up there in January? Are you putting the bill to get them up here? Right, right. Or Carolina, sure. And I don't know if you guys have been up there long enough. But, if this interview had taken place next year, I would ask you, if you guys would have an opinion about mud season or black fly season up in Vermont. Have you experienced any of those? Can't say we have. Yeah, can't say we have. All right, we'll revisit that one in about 12 months. Topic number three is particularly for Sean, but Mikey can chime in if he wants to, the unspoken but persistent pressure put on the coaching staff during the season to eat a vegetarian lunch when the coach is famously vegetarian. You give that a pass or a fail? Sean? So early in my, early in my career, working for Lawrence, definitely give it a pass, but that is a fail. That was I more comfortable. It was, yeah. No, not worth it. worth it. I like it worked maybe during Lent, but out outside of that, it was a, it was a time when I first, yeah. Yeah. Fridays and Lent would be the only day that I would, uh, Yeah. But, uh, no. When I first started working for Lars, he used to say that he would buy any one lunch. Uh, if you ate vegetarian and then I remember doing it and he didn't pay for my lunch. It's like, all right At one point he stopped doing that so I stopped yeah, yeah, that's when you ordered the roast. Thank you Yeah as a young assistant early on maybe you'll take a free lunch even if it's vegetarian but After that, Sean, you're like, no, please, Lars. Oh, thanks. Mikey, did you feel any pressure from Lars about his vegetarian lifestyle? His weirdly, you know, I mean, let's, let's be honest. Can we be honest here? We love Lars, but he's weird. He's just weird. He grew up on a buffalo farm and he's a vegetarian. I mean, for God's sakes, we can all, I mean, Sean, you're a head coach now. Who cares? And Mikey, you're gone. I mean, we can be honest now, you know? Uh, I did not feel any pressure at the time to, uh, make food decisions. So no, I did not feel any pressure. Nice. All right, so the last and final topic of the game, this one's particularly for Mikey, in honor of his paternal grandmother, I believe. The topic is the Tiffany Ranch Loaning Eleven Buffalo to the Onondaga Tribe, but then keeping the receipts and telling everybody about it 40 years later. They're still hanging on to that debt. Do we give that a pass or a fail? So to give a little backstory, I don't know if Mikey knows. Like Lars came on our podcast the first episode and it was great and he told the story of how his dad had the buffalo ranch and then they lent it was supposed to be maybe 10 but then 11 buffalo got into the the giant corral or whatever and you can't really back them out. But, you know, he said it was an amazing story, but then he flat out is like, yeah, and they never paid us back like, okay, we're broadcasting this contract, which, which was on like a deer hides. And I've seen it. Yeah, it's really beautiful. It's very cool. Um, but just, I was thinking as a practical joke, maybe the tribe can send 11 Buffalo down to his house in Charlottesville and then just say, right, right. That would be hilarious. Yeah. So is that a pass or fail? He's calling out the tribe, basically, saying they owe him 11 buffalo. Yeah, I mean, I think the, uh, the act is definitely a pass. Um, again, it's been really cool to see what, what Coach Griffin's done, and his relationship with Native Americans, and what he's done with the Hot Shawnee team. Um, if the, the, the act a pass, I don't know too much about anything else than that, so. He did say, We've and burgers from the, from the, uh, from the reservation. Right. He did say they never asked for the Buffalo back, of course. I'm sure they didn't want it. Right. They've got plenty. It's good stuff. Any other commentary on Coach Tiffany, just for fun? Doesn't have to go. We could always edit it out if needed. Yeah, look at Jay's promise. Yeah, no, we'll edit it out. Just say whatever you want. Yeah, Sean's going to wait until that record button goes dark. Well, the players, I would go to practice. The hand thing always got me, though. Oh yeah. That's right. He does that a lot. Smack. Is it also true, Sean, that you may or may not have complied with his strict, recycling cans and bottles policy? Well, I was terrible at doing that. He gets so mad at me. Yeah. That's hilarious. Yeah, like when I would go to practice, I'd go like once a week or so, and I talked to a lot of the guys who like were injured because they're just like on the sideline. And Gabe and a few of the other guys were always asking me, what's some dirt on Coach Tiffany? And I'm like, I mean, I think I was like a boy scout, honestly, I mean, could you come up with much? I'm like, yeah, he did a bottle dance at my wedding and I'm like, that's it. I'm like, his farts really smell. They're like, we know that we hear him all the time or smell him all the time. You can hear him too. Yeah, Lars was like the straight laced guy. I mean... Back in the day. Yeah, Lars big thing was like, if he wanted to raise awareness about a concerning issue, he would print posters and hang it up around campus. That's the dirt on Lars. Nothing's changed, right? It was very funny, hearing him talk about you all, uh, like leading up to our playoff game against Brown. And just the imprint you all have of the heckling that you do from your little perch and him like, you know, just like, again, just like playing up these legends in his mind of, you know, some, the heckling that you would do and like getting nervous for our freshman goalie and Kip and I being like, it's just heckling. It's like, it's the, it's just very funny. It was a full spread article in the Richmond times dispatch. I thought it was like a joke. I'm like, this is a real newspaper. I like how to go out and buy it to be like, it was, I mean, dogs mentioned JP, I mean, I mean, Mikey, I'm like an administrator at an independent high school and he's naming me in a heckling article in the Richmond times. I'm like, thanks Lars. Appreciate that. But I did say, look, we're already in his head. We're already in his head. Come down here. A lot of good that did you run? Yeah, I know. Well, guys, thanks so much for coming on. This is awesome. Of course. Thank you for having us. Yeah, guys. We're really, we're really excited for you. And it's, uh, it's funny, obviously these, these connections in our game, right, obviously Lars had spent a time on, some time on the coaching staff there. My brother had actually spent some time on the coaching staff at Dartmouth. So Andy tower has been a head coach there. So a lot of connections,, to that program and we're wishing you guys, all the best. Except when you come to Providence, okay? We want to be honest. I want to be clear. Okay. Awfully close game last year. Could have gone either way for sure. No, but best of luck guys. Really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you. Absolutely. Really appreciate it. Yeah, it's a ton of fun. And best of luck. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Good luck guys. All right. See you guys. Great to see you all. All right. Take care. Thanks guys.

Ron: 37:20

until we meet again, here to, hoping you find the twine. We're signing off here at the Get the LAX coop. Thanks again so much. We will see you the next time.